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US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

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Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#141

Post by otherme123 »

mminer237 wrote: post #59
Scoundreller wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn’t really happened in Canada. I think a small-player alcohol company did move in, but only after the bubble popped. Turns out legalization of a drug doesn’t lead to massive increases in consumption. Who knew. Definitely kneecapped the black market though: most moved to the legal side and black market prices cratered.

Marijuana use has massively increased in the US as states have legalized it. Users have doubled: https://www.statista.com/statistics/264862/cannabis-consumpt... Use among users has also increased 20%: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/962353

If I could face consequences for using drugs, I will deny it even after being positive in a test. Of course, once legalized, I'll have no problem saying that I used in once or twice a year. Being it legal, safer and out of the dangerous black market, there will be some new users.

Same happened after alcohol prohibition: more people consumed after the ban was lifted, but consumption was safer. But rarely people that didn't consume during the prohibition went on alcohol binge after the end of the ban. They just drank a couple of beers per week, maybe even a glass of bourbon twice a year, now that they can buy and consume it safely.

Thus the stats you linked doesn't necesarily show a "massive" increase in use, but many people using it sparsely now and many people now admiting to use it that were using previously. In fact, while statista.com shows a 100% increase, the second and more controlled study shows only a ~20% increase that makes more sense (far from massive).

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#142

Post by Alupis »

Hasu wrote: post #126
Alupis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tried for years and has not been successful either. What's the measurement for success? It seems, from a casual observer's perspective, we have fewer people trying hard drugs when the consequences are strict and known. We have more people trying hard drugs when the consequences are removed. Neither system will achieve 0% drug usage - so which policy results in fewer people trying hard drugs?

> What's the measurement for success? It's not "the number of people who try hard drugs", which isn't a particularly interesting or meaningful number (lots of people, including myself, try hard drugs but never end up hooked on them and are productive members of society). Try "the amount of harm caused to society". The drug war destroys more lives than hard drugs. It's a policy failure.

> The drug war destroys more lives than hard drugs. It's a policy failure.

Again, this does not seem as clear as you attempt to present it.

In areas with decriminalized hard drugs, drug usage dramatically increased. It has a direct impact on the lives of the users, and also secondary impacts on the lives of everyone around them and/or has to deal with them.

Drug usage is not the so-called "victimless" crime some position it as. It has a lot of effects on society as a whole.

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#143

Post by ravishi »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #76
incomingpain wrote: post #45

Here in Canada, it has been rather eye opening the extent of cannabis use. There are more cannabis shops then mcdonalds. You can grow your own and most people do. There's online options. A society which criminalizes something so popular and widely used; will ultimately fail at their prohibition. The next step for society would be to attempt at changing opinion, but what are the unintended consequences? The answer is,…

You think most people in Canada grow weed?

I read that as "most people [who smoke weed] grow their own". Also a bold statement but way less absurd than "most Canadians grow weed".

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#145

Post by sanderjd »

paxys wrote: post #102

On one hand I'm very happy with all the recent policy changes coming down from different federal agencies, but on the other there's a very high likelihood that they will all be reversed a few months from now if/when a new administration takes over. That is always the downside of executive rule. With Congress unwilling/incapable of acting though I guess this is the best we'll get.

This kind of rule should be made by an executive agency, empowered by a congressional delegation of that rule-making power to that agency.

This is just the same principle as private organization boards of directors delegating the minutia of running the organization to the executives and their teams. If you think it would be madness for hiring decisions on individual contributors to be made by board votes, then you should support the delegation of rule-making authority to executive agencies.

Yes, it means that changing the executive might change the rules. Congress remains free to overrule the agencies by passing further legislation, if they so desire. And voters remain free to replace the executive the next time around, if they want to see different rules. These are all features, not bugs.

There is certainly value in stability and predictability, but there is even more value in having an executive branch of government that is empowered to make decisions quickly and a short feedback loop between the public and the government.

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#146

Post by swalling »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #93
mannyv wrote: post #56

One major effect of this is that weed stores will be able to use banks and payment processors legally once the regulators catch up.

A lot of them have wiggled around this problem by offering “atms” at the cash register. You pay with a debit card, but it’s not a normal transaction, it’s an ATM withdrawal! I don’t understand how the money is vended to the business, but it keeps it out of the store

Yes this seems to be increasingly common, at least on the west coast. The suboptimal part is that the buyer typically gets hit with an out-of-network ATM fee for doing this, so the consumer is paying $2-5 for processing per transaction.

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#147

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

cflewis wrote: post #87
Liquix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, marijuana shouldn't be considered 100% harmless, but it's ludicrous to argue it does the same amount of damage to people's bodies as ketamine (abuse can lead to kidney failure, bladder cystectomy) or even some sched. IV substances such as alprazolam (seizures from withdrawal can be fatal).

As someone who has taken ketamine for medical purposes and marijuana for not, it is utterly off-the-charts bonkers that they are classified identically. A large dose of ketamine literally disconnects yourself from reality. Weed makes you tired.

Why should subjective effects direct the scheduling of these drugs?

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#148

Post by treflop »

paxys wrote: post #102

On one hand I'm very happy with all the recent policy changes coming down from different federal agencies, but on the other there's a very high likelihood that they will all be reversed a few months from now if/when a new administration takes over. That is always the downside of executive rule. With Congress unwilling/incapable of acting though I guess this is the best we'll get.

Maybe, maybe not. Support for the legalization of marijuana has consistently only gone up for 50 years and even more than half of conservatives supported it in 2023: https://news.gallup.com/poll/514007/grassroots-support-legal...

You typically see flip flop rulings on issues that half the country actually does not support.

Abortion is probably the biggest issue and that's because a lot of the country does not support it and this has not substantially changed in over 50 years: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Another contentious issue has been gay marriage but support for that has only risen over the years (although much more slowly), so generally that is another issue that I don't expect much flip flopping on: https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-hol...

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#149

Post by [deleted] »

colpabar wrote: post #120
paxys wrote: post #102

On one hand I'm very happy with all the recent policy changes coming down from different federal agencies, but on the other there's a very high likelihood that they will all be reversed a few months from now if/when a new administration takes over. That is always the downside of executive rule. With Congress unwilling/incapable of acting though I guess this is the best we'll get.

What bothers me is that all these things are only happening because it's an election year and the incumbent doesn't have great polling numbers.

[deleted]

Re: US drug control agency will move to reclassify marijuana

#150

Post by chrisweekly »

pm90 wrote: post #15
RobRivera wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Time for them to perform due diligence and refactor their operations to take advantage of the new legal landscape to retain competitive pricing inorder for' all these small/mid sized businesses don't get gulped up by big tobacco or other mega corps.

American corporations are great at retooling their business/supply chains for different products (see how quickly everyone moved into hard seltzers). I do expect big tobacco to move in aggressively if weed is made legal.

Agreed -- but I think nobody knows quite how it'll play out.

I think of the thriving microbrewery scene (vs not just Budweiser et al but so-called "premium" beers from megabreweries that don't hold a candle to the local stuff).

I also wonder about the degree to which psilocybin might be following THC's path, wrt state vs federal laws....

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