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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#201

Post by immibis »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #196
superkuh wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue is not with systemd. My issue is with the argument that all development is good. In this example I am pointing out how Gtk3 has suffered from development attention from GNOME over the last decade and became worse. Maybe run0 is worse than sudo. Maybe not. I have no personal experience on that topic and I doubt anyone here does.

It's the same thing though - nobody is forced to accept their changes, you can fork at any time. Or stop using it, keep using gtk2, etc.

Reality is more nuanced than that, because even if the newer software is worse, if it markets itself better it can persuade other projects to drop support for the old software.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#202

Post by IntelMiner »

ranger_danger wrote: post #163
IntelMiner wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're always welcome to write an alternative if you don't think systemd's direction is correct. Frankly with the number of detractors you could likely form a much larger team to "do it properly" instead! Love or hate Pottering and his team, they're at least writing code instead of postulating on internet forums. systemd's adoption and popularity among many is proof of that

> instead of postulating on internet forums Love or hate internet discussion, you're always welcome to not participate in it.

To your point. Lennart instead of participating, just writes code? :)

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#203

Post by Xylakant »

James_K wrote: post #195
growse wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this an argument specifically against systemd, rather than all large software projects? Linux kernel, gcc, glibc - all bundle "a large amount of functionality under a single system" - does this make their design fundamentally flawed as well?

I think a micro-kernel architecture would be better in many ways, security being just one of them. With GCC, it couldn't really be separated into logically distinct modules any more than it already is. All of the constituent parts essentially use the full functionality of the base compiler part, so there is little to be gained separating them. It's not as if the C compiler from GCC, could for instance, be written in…

Given how common LZMA as a compression algorithm is, are you certain that your init system of choice doesn’t use it in any way? It’s a very common algorithm in network protocols, it’s a direct dependency of libxml, … - and if any part of your init system uses LZMA, then it just happens not to be affected because the attacker chose to target one specific system.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#204

Post by thayne »

segasaturn wrote: post #168

I asked this in a thread about this from last night and didn't get a reply. For context, the way "run0" works is to apparently send a signal to polkit that requests a command under the root user's ID and permissions, thereby getting a privileged shell without SUID: > How hard would it be to create a program to send a signal to polkit "impersonating" run0 and obtain a root shell without entering a password? Anybody kn…

I would assume the authentication happens in polkit, so a fake client would only be able to run a command if it had the necessary credentials.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#205

Post by throw0101b »

First comment at the LWN:

> […] I think calling the flags "setuid" (as lwn appears to prefer?) just blurs things, since that's the name of a syscall (setuid()), which does something related, but is not actually involved in the concept that the inode SUID flag is about.

> Hence, I am a bit confused what that comment here is supposed to achieve? It just creates confusion?

> Lennart

* https://lwn.net/Articles/971747/

Reply by corbet:

> Lennart, the purpose was to be sure that readers knew what the term meant in the quote, nothing more.

Never change, Lennart, never change…

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#207

Post by jmclnx »

Why ? I guess you do not get this unless you have systemd, that is fine by me. If I would use anything outside of sudo I would go to doas.

My home distro does not have systemd, so I guess I may never see run0.

I have been evaluating the various BSDs for a few years in case my distro is forced to use systemd and friends. The distro I use is fighting the good fight against large monolithic tools, but it is having a hard time trying to avoid these monolithic tools.

With Linux slowly forcing systemd, Wayland, various Desktop Environments and now this, my move to a BSD may happen sooner that later.

Curious, I wonder how close run0 is to how Windows raise auths ? With LP now working for Microsoft, is he cloning tools from Windows for use in Linux ?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#209

Post by blueflow »

dmm wrote: post #40
constantcrying wrote: post #39

Why do they have to do this? This is really, really stupid. My issue isn't even that someone tries to replace sudo. That may or may not be a completely fine thing to do, depending on the state of sudo and what improvements can be made. But what makes me really upset is this completely unexplainable need to make everything part of one particular init system. There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replaceme…

> they will force all their projects simultaneously onto all their users for absolutely no reason. That's just not true. Just because a system uses systemd the init system doesn't mean the it is forced to use the other components.

The reverse is true: Trying to use a component like udev or logind or in the future, run0, will require the use of systemd. Either you use full systemd or you can't get any of the fancy stuff.

Gentoo folks have eudev or seatd but thats an uphill battle.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#210

Post by dig1 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #4

I'm really starting to hate the sub-community in Linux that tries to constantly change it. I don't want to learn a new network config alternative with every update (Ubuntu changed its net config tool again with 24.04). I don't want an immutable os. I don't want to learn to write new config files. I just want to do what I've been doing but with new packages. If there's a problem with something, just fix it. Don't thro…

This is the main reason why I'm still on Slackware. Pat is keeping the same thing for the last 20-30 years. Sure, he had to introduce some stuff, like NetworkManager or PulseAudio, to keep up with the latest software versions, but every major change is postponed as much as possible. Hell, even systemd is not there yet, and I'm pleased about that.
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