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Dear Europe, please wake up

klinger.io

81–90 of 323 posts

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#81
It's a tricky thing: my experience does mirror some of the "propaganda" despite coming to Europe with heavily rose-tinted glasses. I'm not going to pretend that my limited data is enough to extrapolate to the whole of the continent but it's still a data point.

The work culture is very different. There's a clear attitude of working until the next holiday and the company never gets one minute more than what they pay me for. That's honestly not a _bad_ perspective to have but it's not ideal if you're trying to build a startup

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#83
“Europe” is not a thing I tell most people trying to expand. It’s just a bunch of countries. Yes, some things are unified but it really doesn’t matter. It’s fragmented, extra work, and it’s bullshit compared to just building for a unified market like US or China. Tall poppy syndrome is also very real in Europe. It’s a dream killer and is deeply ingrained in many societies here. You can work hard all you want but these are the true frictions for risking capital and time.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#85

A lot of the "Europe is bleh" rhetoric is about Western Europe - specifically France, Germany, and the UK (if they make it harder for European and Asian immigrants to come). The Eastern and Central European countries have always felt much more dynamic and open to work hard. There's a reason why the countries on the lefthand side of the graph provided are also the ones with some of the better innovation industries in…

In all honesty, tech people in EE show up to the office at 11 and take a legit one hour plus lunch break to eat proper food at the restaurant together. To ensure team cohesion of course. I'm not sure if that counts as a hard work or the result is simply better because you hire smart people and can't micromanage from SF due to 10h time zone difference.

>German, French, and British government officials are the worst to deal with imo

I would dread dealing with my countries government anything if I have time pressure. The result could be anything. In Western Europe I know that things will be done even if slow (ish).

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#86

I have no idea whether Europeans work harder than Americans, but I do want to say that you can't extrapolate the overall work ethic of America by looking at the SF tech world. It's a very, very small (and very privileged) microcosm of the country.

I have to admit I raised an eyebrow at Greece being near the top of the list. That's going against stereotype hard.

What is not mentioned in the article is that productivity is much more important than the number of hours worked. By productivity, I mean output per hour worked, which is usually an estimation made from the total output of the country (GDP) and the numbers of hours worked by the working population.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re at an EU company and need to give 3+ months notice to quit that will discourage starting your own company on the side. India has similar non-competes to Western Europe, but is able to maintain an innovation ecosystem.

India’s where offshoring from the us is. That maintains demand. India is also still industrializing. Expect India to look more like China - with similar economic pitfalls - in the next few decades. Some companies have already begun pulling from India because of costs and poor performance negating the labor savings. Some companies have figured this out and the non competes create a captive workforce but others are jus…

> Expect India to look more like China - with similar economic pitfalls - in the next few decades

Pretty much this. The best way to operate in India is to use a mixed Chinese and Israeli mindset tbh.

> India’s where offshoring from the us is

True, but there is a massive change now from the 2000s where it's just BPO. Literally the crown jewels of enterprise and deep tech and increasingly innovated and designed by the India teams directly (eg. the cybersecurity backbone of a major 5G telco in the US, the Apple mobile chips, Google Pay, etc).

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#88
post #18

Rich person wants employees to work harder and have a lower quality of life. Somehow I don’t think many people living in the EU want the work/life balance of the US with paltry benefits and no social safety net.

Somehow I don't think many people living in the US want the paltry salaries of the EU and the burdensome and restrictive regulations that inhibit innovation

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#89
Incorporation is already simple in the EU. Just pick the easiest jurisdiction, access the common market. Yes, local labor laws for employing people in different countries vary, but so does the states.

The English language thing, meh. I used to think the same but no longer do. Diversity is a good thing, it's Anglos who could use learning to work in different languages and cultural contexts.

Last but not least, just the tech bro-itis is so strong with this article. Like yeah if your identity and life is consumed by being a tech bro and you want the world to optimize for that and your startups, sure, let's make everywhere Delaware and the Bay Area. But that's not what most of the world wants or tries to do.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#90

“The problem is not that regulation 1 or 100 is too much. The problem is that every country has different regulations, creating a mess of complexity if you want to act across a larger consumer market” If you’re building the next Uber sure, this might be a problem. But this is also a HUGE advantage if you’re not though. If you’re building the Workday for Estonia, or the LinkedIn for Germany (ie Xing) you have a huge a…

You re just building 27 different companies that are all reinventing the same wheel in their country, and they are all destined to never grow, until some US company localizes their offering and shuts them all down. Microsoft has done exactly that 100 times
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