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FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

docs.fcc.gov

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Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#91

Post by sroussey »

hocuspocus wrote: post #69
sofixa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of this abuse of personal data would go away if people knew it was going on. GDPR proves this wrong. Most people click OK/accept even in front of relatively clear information (to be fair sometimes the options are "accept for you to be tracked and shared with 'our partners' or pay a subscription/fee", which is an easy choice for many.

In this very case, the GDPR is scary enough that European carriers make sure to anonymize and aggregate analytics they sell to third parties. Even if you click OK, a data leak would be pretty harmless and wouldn't identify you personally.

Location data that includes your home in the suburbs is pretty identifiable.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#92

Post by gruez »

tithe wrote: post #18
uptown wrote: post #9

Sprint - $12 million fine (In 2019, Sprint Corporation's revenue amounted to 33.6 billion U.S. dollars) T-Mobile – $80 million fine (T-Mobile US annual revenue for 2021 was $80.118B) AT&T - $57 million fine (AT&T revenue for the twelve months ending March 31, 2024 was $122.317B) Verizon - $47 million fine (Verizon annual revenue for 2023 was $133.974B)

Sprint - 0.0003 of revenue T-Mobile - 0.0009 of revenue AT&T - 0.0004 of revenue Verizon - 0.0003 of revenue

Seems like a weird comparison to make considering the money they made selling the data is only a small fraction of their overall revenue.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#93

Post by gruez »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #81
mysteria wrote: post #22

The bigger question is whether the fine was less than the amount they made selling the location data.

If the fine was more than the income in the past, that still doesn’t matter because of the income from future sales will still make this behaviour worthwhile

>that still doesn’t matter because of the income from future sales will still make this behaviour worthwhile

Wouldn't future sales also be fined?

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#94

Post by dangus »

ethbr1 wrote: post #87
xyst wrote: post #78

$200M is chump change. These carriers have been doing this for a long time. Nothing will change. At most, a footnote in the privacy policy will be added.

The amount is not the point. It's the fact that they were fined. Shareholders tend to be unhappy with "We were fined for doing this, and so we kept doing it and now owe another fine." Also, exec bodies/courts/juries tend to be more skeptical of an ignorance defense if a company was literally fined for doing that exact thing previously.

Shareholders don’t care about that.

“We were fined $20 million for something that makes us $200 million” is a no brainer choice to a shareholder.

And the probability of getting that fine imposed is far less than 1.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/01/1197963517/dupont-chemours-ch...

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#95

Post by nimbius »

xyst wrote: post #78

$200M is chump change. These carriers have been doing this for a long time. Nothing will change. At most, a footnote in the privacy policy will be added.

to clarify, this was a third party company called securus that offered a blanket deal to track practically everyone based on a deal they had with cellular companies to purchase tracking data. Securus normally only works with US prisoners. They were collecting data on everyone and then rebranding that capability/relationship as a service. it no longer exists apparently in a hamfisted attempt to avoid more litigation beyond the FCC judgement.

https://securustechnologies.tech/investigative/investigation...

no technical details yet though about how precise the tracking was...im a bit hazy on where the carrier modem stops and where the firmware/hardware start (thats probably by design...) Is it possible to poll GPS in realtime for coordinates? likely not...is it likely the ASN was polled from towers to provide a range of affinity for a user? definitely.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#96

Post by ethbr1 »

eli wrote: post #86

> The fines are unfair, Carr said, because the commission "has never held that location information other than 'call location information' constitutes CPNI [Customer Proprietary Network Information]. Sure would be a shame if someone leaked this guy's location history. I mean c'mon it's just common sense that if your location when you place a call must be kept private then your location when you're just walking around…

Old now, but I thought this was an effective demonstration:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/20/opinion/locat...

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#97

Post by dexterdog »

takeda wrote: post #65
issafram wrote: post #27

Drop in an ocean. Should've done 5% of annual revenue. That would send a much bigger message.

It should be set to 10x of all the profits they made from it to create a dilemma for the next time.

Except there is no way to prove what profits they made from it. They'll just pay an "accounting firm" to audit and say that the venture was unprofitable.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#99

Post by calvinmorrison »

idatum wrote: post #67
jmward01 wrote: post #12

The core issue is transparency. I don't want to see a 'privacy policy', I want to see who a company has sold/given my information to and what limitations that sale has. The concept is simple. If you collect anything about me and allow some other entity access, you tell me about it/make it easy for me to see -and- block. Most of this abuse of personal data would go away if people knew it was going on.

Everything should be opt-in. Burden should be on them, something like, "We want to share your data and if you agree here are the benefits to you."

if this is the case, it really needs to MATERIALLY benefit you. My friend uses all the rewards apps and really uses credit card points, programmes, etc, and it does benefit them.

Me? I just use cash everywhere and now the guy at harbor freight knows I'm the guy who says 'I dont have a cell phone number'.

Contracts you know, they need to benefit both sides.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#100

Post by caseyy »

eli wrote: post #86

> The fines are unfair, Carr said, because the commission "has never held that location information other than 'call location information' constitutes CPNI [Customer Proprietary Network Information]. Sure would be a shame if someone leaked this guy's location history. I mean c'mon it's just common sense that if your location when you place a call must be kept private then your location when you're just walking around…

This reminds me of when Blizzard wanted to collect every user's real name and instead their executives' (and, unfortunately, employees') personal data got put online — https://news.softpedia.com/news/Blizzard-Employees-Have-Thei....
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