Live data from Hacker News

What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

merriam-webster.com

221–230 of 337 posts

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#221

Merriam-Webster brags in TFA about their descriptivist reputation; and indeed, they are thw arch-descriptivists. But I'm not aware of any contemporary publisher of dictionaries that doesn't take a descriptivist stance. This places pendants like me at a serious disadvantage; I can't rely on a dictionary to help me win arguments about correct usage. "Nonplussed" is like "disgruntled"; you can't be plussed, and you can'…

Not to be a pedant about the spelling of "pedant", but...

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#222

Merriam-Webster brags in TFA about their descriptivist reputation; and indeed, they are thw arch-descriptivists. But I'm not aware of any contemporary publisher of dictionaries that doesn't take a descriptivist stance. This places pendants like me at a serious disadvantage; I can't rely on a dictionary to help me win arguments about correct usage. "Nonplussed" is like "disgruntled"; you can't be plussed, and you can'…

> This places pendants like me at a serious disadvantage; I can’t rely on a dictionary to help me win arguments about correct usage.

First, unless you are dangling from a piece of jewelry, “pedants”, not “pendants”.

Second, stop worrying about “correct” usage and worry about clear and effective communication. It’s a lot less useful and convincing to argue that a usage is wrong by some arbitrary standard than to argue, e.g., that it promotes confusion where an alternative expression would be more clear to the target audience. Not only is it a more useful approach, it also lets you get benefit from dictionaries again.

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#223
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current favourite instance of singular 'they' is in the KJV translation of the Book of Job – specifically, the end of chapter 15. The authors used generic 'he' throughout, until they got to a bit they'd have to translate as "his womb". Clearly this was a wee bit radical of a concept for the authors, because they chose instead to write "their belly prepareth deceit". Also, since it's a religious text, this is a sla…

I don't know if translations really count as the Word of God. If so, how do we know which translation when they differ?

Some churches have the doctrinal position that particular translations were divinely inspired. Indeed, there are people out there who will tell you that the King James Version is the _only_ 100% true and accurate Bible in any language, because God influenced the translators to correct errors in their source material.

(Most other churches think this is extremely silly.)

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no objection to avoiding assumptions about a person's gender. It's unfortunate in my opinion that we chose "they" which is gender-neutral but also plural. That is entirely where the issue is for me. I'd have no objection to a singular gender-neutral word (which unfortunately doesn't exist in English). "One" sometimes works, but often sounds too formal. Or reworking the sentence so that "they" is approprate, e.…

> I'd have no objection to a singular gender-neutral word (which unfortunately doesn't exist in English). Yes it does. "He" is the gender neutral expression in English and has been since forever. It's just that politically correct people get bent out of shape about it.

It isn't gender neutral, it's a gender default. Unless you think it would be correct for the student handbook at an all-girls school to read "every student shall store his books in his assigned locker".

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put, that's not how English works. Say that an English speaker speaks a sentence, and an English listener understands it. If they both agree that it was an English sentence -- including no jargon -- and they both agree on the meaning of the sentence, then that's correct English . If the two individuals have also never met before, then it's certainly correct English. That's what "defined by usage" means. Englis…

FWIW that's also how languages work that do have an academy. The academy may be a participant in the process but they don't control it, that's basically just a relic of before we understood how languages work.

> that's basically just a relic of before we understood how languages work

Relics that unfortunately maintain significant influence in at least France and Germany.

When I grew up and was just learning to write, orthography was "revamped" by literal committee, in some cases even going so far as deriving a new spelling via false etymologies.

It wasn't really a big deal for me practically, but it just seems bizarre.

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#226

On a tangential note, one of my pet peeves is the way that many people (mostly Americans?) pronounce words like "processes" as "process-eez". Words with Greek roots that end in -is or -es generally use the -eez suffix. e.g. analysis -> analyses; thesis -> theses In the case of Latin, it's -ix or -ex . e.g. index - indices, appendix - appendices. There are of course exceptions and outliers (suffix -> suffixes; octopus…

I've heard both, and the "-esseez" plural just seems less ambiguous on poor videoconferencing lines and recordings. "-esses" is a mouthful to pronounce.

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#227
post #105

I knew it! Context clues typically imply the ("wrong") meaning, so I misinterpreted this word for a while until I used it out loud, and my pedantic family corrected me. But so many usages of the word are vague, and the difference between "perplexed" and "ambivalent" is not super important in most stories. (Whoever is nonplussed is not likely to take action on the situation.) I had a feeling that some authors were usi…

Another word that is often used incorrectly. "Ambivalent" doesn't mean "unruffled" or "unbothered". It actually means to have two (possibly strong) contradictory emotions. It's more like "bittersweet" or to be "of two minds".

Re: What's Going on with ‘Nonplussed’? (2017)

#230

Merriam-Webster brags in TFA about their descriptivist reputation; and indeed, they are thw arch-descriptivists. But I'm not aware of any contemporary publisher of dictionaries that doesn't take a descriptivist stance. This places pendants like me at a serious disadvantage; I can't rely on a dictionary to help me win arguments about correct usage. "Nonplussed" is like "disgruntled"; you can't be plussed, and you can'…

> This places pendants like me at a serious disadvantage; I can’t rely on a dictionary to help me win arguments about correct usage. First, unless you are dangling from a piece of jewelry, “pedants”, not “pendants”. Second, stop worrying about “correct” usage and worry about clear and effective communication. It’s a lot less useful and convincing to argue that a usage is wrong by some arbitrary standard than to argue…

> “pedants”, not “pendants”

I noticed my fat-finger mistake, but it was too late to edit.

> worry about clear and effective communication

Oh, I do. That's why I object to using "literally" to mean "figuratively", i.e. the exact opposite.

I mean, I don't object to ignorant people using words ignorantly; but lexicographers know better, and should be calling out ignorant usages.

Post reply on HN