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Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

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Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#71

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

bluGill wrote: post #23
bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

The problem with that - the same problem layouts like Dvorak have but worse - is that I sometimes have to use other computers. Any custom layout will be great for me - once I put forth the effort to learn it of course, but since it will only be for me nobody else can use my computer (This computer I'm using now I don't care as only I touch it). However I have computers that others in my family also use, computers at…

I type in Dvorak and 'using other computers' is not a real concern: you retain qwerty typing skills even if you use Dvorak.

It's like foreign languages: you don't forget English when you learn French.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#72

Post by Symmetry »

ivanjermakov wrote: post #56
Symmetry wrote: post #6

Interesting, but I think if I were to re-learn touch typing I'd go all the way and move to a chording keyboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard

Chording is efficient if you soley write text. It doesn't fit for text editing and writing text with lots of punctuation (code).

I dunno, not having to move your fingers from their positions seems like a big advantage even if you can't get the full X00 wpm an expert can get in regular text.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#73

Post by a-priori »

bluGill wrote: post #23
bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

The problem with that - the same problem layouts like Dvorak have but worse - is that I sometimes have to use other computers. Any custom layout will be great for me - once I put forth the effort to learn it of course, but since it will only be for me nobody else can use my computer (This computer I'm using now I don't care as only I touch it). However I have computers that others in my family also use, computers at…

I've used Dvorak essentially full-time for the last 20 years and I can still type in QWERTY. In fact, I just switched to QWERTY just now to type this and it feels a bit awkward and I make some typos, but it's perfectly usable.

The hardest part of switching is punctuation and shortcut keys, not the letters themselves. But I can use other people's computers and usually most people don't know that anything's odd.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#74

Post by ashton314 »

erksa wrote: post #35
bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

ZSA, the company behind the moonlander now has a heatmap extension [1]. After running it you get an idea of where your heavy keys are. When creating my own (slightly) modified qwerty layout I found it helpful to identify which areas of the keyboard was overloaded. https://blog.zsa.io/2012-introducing-heatmaps/

I used this tool to refine my Moonlander layout. It works really well. ZSA is just a wonderful little company. Great products, great tech support.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#75

Post by tiltowait »

konfusinomicon wrote: post #10

moonlander is best lander. if you type for a living, buy one and never look back.

Have to say I also disagree[0]. For my money, the Keyboardio Model 100 has been the best keyboard in terms of functionality and acceptable compromises, but it’s not perfect either. I miss the Kinesis Advantage’s key wells (note: if you’re looking to buy one, buy the 360, not the Advantage2), but the Keyboardio’s thumb cluster and palm keys offset that loss.

Looking at custom keyboards, the Dactyl is probably quite good.

[0] Even if it’s a huge step above normal keyboards.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#76

Post by zubairshaik »

konfusinomicon wrote: post #10

moonlander is best lander. if you type for a living, buy one and never look back.

For a full size keyboard, I'd highly recommend the Glove80 [0] instead. For something more compact and portable, look at ZSA's own Voyager [1].

The reason I'd recommend the Glove80 is because a keywell is just so much nicer to type on, especially if you want to actually be able to use the number row without straining your fingers. Their thumb cluster is also the most sane one that I've come across, and the absolute though put into the design is astounding and commendable [2]. The article is definitely worth a read.

I recommend the Voyager especially if you are a believer in 1DFH (1-distance-from-home)[3]. It has very few keys so you'll have to learn about layers [4] and/or home-row mods[5] or my favorite callum-style mods [6].

[0] https://www.moergo.com/

[1] https://www.zsa.io/voyager/

[2] https://www.moergo.com/pages/glove80-ergonomic-keyboard-desi...

[3] https://zealot.hu/absolem/

[4] https://blog.zsa.io/layers-explained/

[5] https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods

[6] https://github.com/callum-oakley/qmk_firmware/tree/master/us...

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#77

Post by knallfrosch »

I bought a Glove80 which has everything: split, ortholinear, concave, mechanical, wireless, backlight, open firmware..

But find myself switching back to a default keyboard nevertheless.

Instead of trying to reach everything with my fingers and reaching for those faraway keys, I just move my arm – that's far superior. Also I can switch which hands hit the middle keys like G and H.

Plus I can type some stuff one-handedly, which is simply not possible on a split keyboard.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#78

Post by CountHackulus »

bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

I daily drive the Keyboardio Model 100. I like it a lot, but I really would like to remap a few of the special characters. It works fantastically well for just arbitrary documents, but writing C++ is frustrating. The custom shape of all the keycaps makes it basically impossible to remap without just using clear keycaps.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#79

Post by zubairshaik »

Great write-up. Any one who wants to dive way way deeper into keyboard layout optimization should look into the subreddit[0] as well as the Alternate Keyboard Layout Discord. It is a shame that most of the collective knowledge is stuck on a proprietary platform like Discord but there is a wealth of information there. The current more highly recommended layouts for most people (because of statistics, ease of use, comfort, etc.) is a family of layout known as nrts haei named after the homerow for these layouts.

If you want to take a peek at them I recommend these two layouts and their accompanying motivations: Graphite[1] and Gallium [2]. I especially recommend Graphite if you want to optimize your punctuation for programming as well as your alpha keys, since most layouts don't consider moving around punctuation beyond the semicolon and the comma keys. Feel free to ask me any questions you might have.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts

[1] https://github.com/rdavison/graphite-layout

[2] https://github.com/GalileoBlues/Gallium

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#80

Post by ivanjermakov »

Symmetry wrote: post #72
ivanjermakov wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chording is efficient if you soley write text. It doesn't fit for text editing and writing text with lots of punctuation (code).

I dunno, not having to move your fingers from their positions seems like a big advantage even if you can't get the full X00 wpm an expert can get in regular text.

I agree that reduced finger movement is a crucial step in achieving typing efficiency. This is nicely solved by mod tap modifiers in QMK/ZMK[1] where key acts as a char when tapped and as a layer while pressed.

[1]: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/docs/mod_tap...

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