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SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

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111–120 of 201 posts

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#111
post #16

Which states would you speculate will be best long term for AI startups? I would’ve guessed California but it’s looking more important to pick a state less likely to get over their skis with regulation. Washington doesn’t seem yet to be doing this, and no state tax with lots of AI engineers/researchers in Seattle/redmond which is why I’m here. Texas probably won’t add regulations and has similar pros if you’re in Aus…

State politics are important, but electricity prices and availability of real estate for new data centers also matters. California has particularly high electricity prices and makes it difficult to construct new industrial facilities (especially near bodies of water that could help with cooling requirements). While companies might locate some employees in CA, the hardware will likely run elsewhere.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has been killed by AI, unless you're arguing it impacts mental health [1]. A better-fitting analogy I'd make is that sex causes disease and other negative externalities, so we should pass laws that force people to be married and licensed in order to have sex. In any case, this bill is the walking epitome of something a "nanny state" might produce. [1] TikTok and Instagram have far more impact on this, and we'v…

>Nobody has been killed by AI Some of us worry that billions of people will be killed by AI in the future -- possibly without anything that you or the average decision-maker might regard as a warning. (They're likely to be killed all at the same time.) I.e., it is more like a large asteroid slamming into the Earth than a stream of deaths over time such as produced by the deployment in society of the automobile (excep…

> My worry is that billions of people will be killed (probably all at the same time) by AI in the future

Science fiction.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#113
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying we should punish when bridge collapses, before that any bridge should be able to be built. You can argue that, but not many will agree.

Nobody has been killed by AI, unless you're arguing it impacts mental health [1]. A better-fitting analogy I'd make is that sex causes disease and other negative externalities, so we should pass laws that force people to be married and licensed in order to have sex. In any case, this bill is the walking epitome of something a "nanny state" might produce. [1] TikTok and Instagram have far more impact on this, and we'v…

I agree nobody has been killed by AI. In order to continue to ensure that, the law stipulates you should report if someone is killed by AI.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#114
post #71
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand this law does not mandate you to ensure anything. It requires you to follow best practices (to be determined), report safety incidents, etc. You are not even liable for safety incidents, you just need to report them, although it may be embarrassing. Overall, it seems highly reasonable.

> requires you to follow best practices (to be determined) Trigger happy regulation for a field that hasn't even come into full swing. It's indicative of an over-active immune system; lawmakers with nothing better to do. Pass laws against improper use and go after the malicious users. Don't ban the technology, the research, or even the applications. (Of which there will be abundant good uses. Many of which we've yet…

>Pass laws against improper use and go after the malicious users.

I think they are having to deal with things like sales to countries outside of their legal reach. So, while I understand the tack here, there's probably more to it than this.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#115
post #90
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying we should punish when bridge collapses, before that any bridge should be able to be built. You can argue that, but not many will agree.

Because we know how to build bridges so that they don't collapse. The laws of physics that govern bridge-building are well known. The equivalent for AI systems? Not really.

We don't know how to make safe AI systems, so we should be more cavalier and anything-goes than if we did? Madness.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#116
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying we should punish when bridge collapses, before that any bridge should be able to be built. You can argue that, but not many will agree.

Nobody has been killed by AI, unless you're arguing it impacts mental health [1]. A better-fitting analogy I'd make is that sex causes disease and other negative externalities, so we should pass laws that force people to be married and licensed in order to have sex. In any case, this bill is the walking epitome of something a "nanny state" might produce. [1] TikTok and Instagram have far more impact on this, and we'v…

Aren't there countries using AI for military target selection, right now?

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nobody has been killed by AI Some of us worry that billions of people will be killed by AI in the future -- possibly without anything that you or the average decision-maker might regard as a warning. (They're likely to be killed all at the same time.) I.e., it is more like a large asteroid slamming into the Earth than a stream of deaths over time such as produced by the deployment in society of the automobile (excep…

> My worry is that billions of people will be killed (probably all at the same time) by AI in the future Science fiction.

The idea that something with greater cognitive capabilities than us might be dangerous to us occurs to many people: sci-fi writers in large numbers to be sure, but also Alan Turing and a large fraction of currently-living senior AI researchers.

What really gets me concerned is the quality of the writing on the subject of how can we design an AI so that it will not want to hurt us (just as we design bridges so that we know from first principles they won't fall down). Most leaders of AI labs have by now written about the topic, but the writings are shockingly bad: everyone has some explanation as to why the AI will turn out to be safe, but there are dozens of orthogonal explanations, some very simplistic, none of which I want to bet my life on or the lives of my younger relatives.

Those who do write well about the topic, particularly Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares of the Machine Intelligence Research Institute, say that it is probably not currently within the capabilities of any living human or group of humans to design an AI to be safe (to humans) the way we design bridges to be safe, and that our best hope is the hope that over the next centuries humankind will become cognitively capable enough to do and that in the meantime people stop trying to create AIs that might turn out to be dangerously capable -- which (because outside of actually doing the training run, we have no way of predicting the effects on capability of the next architectural improvement or the next increase in computing resources devoted to training) basically means stopping all AI research now worldwide and for good measure stopping progress in GPU technology.

Eliezer has been full-time employed for over 20 years to work on the issue (and Nate has been for about 15 years) and they've had enough funding to employ at least a dozen researchers and researcher-apprentices over that time to bounce ideas off of in the office.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#118
It won't stifle anything. It will take about 2 months for all AI companies to abandon California. Forcing them out of SF will make their social lives worse but lower their costs 80%. The end result is that they will spend less time drinking $17 espresso, more time working, and will be able to hire more engineers. AI research accelerates dramatically.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#119
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we know how to build bridges so that they don't collapse. The laws of physics that govern bridge-building are well known. The equivalent for AI systems? Not really.

Best practices will say things like "you should test it". While we are ignorant, there are just many reasonable things to do. Human biology is not completely understood, but that does not mean medical checklists are useless.

Test it how? What makes it fail? The ability to tell people how to make a bomb? Being able to say what (few) good things Hitler accomplished for Germany? Giving medical advice? Where’s the line?

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#120

While this article makes some valid points, it basically just ignores the reasons why the law is being passed, that is the potential for open-models to enable bio-attacks, cyberattacks, election manipulation, automated personalised scams, and who knows what else. One might question why that is. Perhaps it's the case that Jeremy has an excellent response to these points which he has somehow neglected to raise. Or perh…

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