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The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

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Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#41

Post by eli_gottlieb »

jcranmer wrote: post #12
bruceb wrote: post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The point I gave up reading was when Nate started arguing that a degree from an Ivy League would look worse than a good state school to employers because those students are clearly political activist nincompoops. And it's like... first off, these trends have been going on for as long as I can remember (and I am no longer young), and second off, you got your fame doing good statistical analysis, surely you could back…

> The point I gave up reading was when Nate started arguing that a degree from an Ivy League would look worse than a good state school to employers because those students are clearly political activist nincompoops.

Right, the politics are way down the list of reasons to not bother with these kids. The politics are downstream of these kids being nepo babies.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#42

Post by wredue »

aantix wrote: post #21
bruceb wrote: post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The connections don't matter as much as you would think. If you're driven, you will succeed. Regardless of school choice. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/10/10/getting-in-ivy... “As a hypothetical example, take the University of Pennsylvania and Penn State, which are two schools a lot of students choose between,” Krueger said. “One is Ivy, one is a state school. Penn is much more highly selective. If you comp…

Just no. The single greatest predictor of your success is how successful your parents are, and the other predictors are not even close to the same ballpark, and a huge reason for that is connections.

Anyone can cherry pick a few cases and say “see”, and I highly suspect that’s what’s actually going on there.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#43

Post by jp_sc »

hehdhdjehehegwv wrote: post #17
bugglebeetle wrote: post #2

One of the worst, most embarrassing mistakes one can make as they age is to believe themselves so wise as to offer up unsolicited advice to the young.

I don’t think you should even be allowed to vote past 40.

Funny, I was thinking the same for the people under 30

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#44

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #5
bruceb wrote: post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The richest can pay 20x more for something only slightly better and genuinely think it's a great deal. You can't.

Ivy League schools give a large proportion of students a full ride, or close to it. Tuition is not really a reason not to go to the Ivies.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#45

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

baking wrote: post #25
Imnimo wrote: post #4

I don't buy a lot of this analysis. >This week, for instance, Google — despite probably being the most progressive or Silicon Valley company, nevertheless fired dozens of employees involved in pro-Palestine/anti-Israel protests that resemble those on university campuses. I find it extremely hard to believe that Google is going to start not wanting to hire MIT grads because MIT has a protest encampment. This sort of t…

There has been a lot of talk in the financial press in the last week about not hiring recent grads from schools that don't respond to anti-semitism. Since these are considered (without a whole lot of evidence) to be the same schools with protests, there is at least some basis for it. Whether anything comes of it, we will see.

Coordinated by Israel, I guarantee.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#46

Post by brian_cunnie »

threeseed wrote: post #35
jcranmer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I gave up reading was when Nate started arguing that a degree from an Ivy League would look worse than a good state school to employers because those students are clearly political activist nincompoops. And it's like... first off, these trends have been going on for as long as I can remember (and I am no longer young), and second off, you got your fame doing good statistical analysis, surely you could back…

It's hilarious to see people up in arms about these students protesting. As though students from different generations didn't do exactly the same thing about the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam Wars.

> As though students from different generations didn't do exactly the same thing about the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam Wars.

I remember protesting at Penn in '85 ('86?) to persuade the trustees to divest from companies doing business in apartheid South Africa. And you know what? The trustees divested.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#47

Post by nostromo »

It's kinda crazy just how untouchable Israel is in the US politically.

TikTok can spread all sorts of craziness amongst America's youth for years -- but the second politicians find out it's being used to oppose Israel's actions in Gaza, it's banned by congress and the president (which is of course still pending).

Ivy Leagues can spend years promoting very radical ideas and kicking out people left and right for wrongthink -- but the moment they stand up for very permissive free speech (finally) it happens to be on the wrong issue and boom, they're fired.

Student protests for good and bad reasons have been going on forever. But suddenly the media is very concerned with student protests being ill thought out in a way they haven't been before.

If you asked me if Israel still had this much pull in America, I'd have said not they don't. But obviously I was very wrong.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#49

Post by onion2k »

hehdhdjehehegwv wrote: post #15
DrFalkyn wrote: post #6

I'd say its the exception that you should not go Ivy/elite if you get in. Ivy Leagues have experiences/opportunities that simply are not replicated at state schools. Yes for determined/driven individuals, it may not matter all that much. And if you are not going to take advantage of what those elites have to offer, maybe you should reconsider if the financial burden is too high.

And the resumé boost is for life.

I don't think that's really true, and if it is I don't think it's an advantage you'd actually want to use later in life. Based of my experience of hiring over the past 25 years (as someone hiring people, not as a candidate), my belief now is that your university degree is important for about a decade, has diminishing returns over the next few years, and then it's basically irrelevant. If you've got 15 years of relevant experience what degree you have and where it's from makes no difference to a good company.

The exception is somewhat antagonistic too - if you still believe it's important (e.g you come to an interview and talk about how great Cambridge is) that's a signal you're not going to be a good hire.

Obviously there are many caveats to this - I don't have an elite university degree, I'm not in the US, I've only ever hired developers, I've never worked in a business that needed people with elite university degrees, the number of people I've hired is a tiny sample of the industry, etc.

I suspect people who think elite degrees are important are mostly other people who have an elite degree, and often those people are the ones who make it into hiring manager positions or higher. In that case it kind of does matter, but only if you want to work in a company where an elite university degree counts for more than experience, and I'm pretty sure you don't.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#50

Post by zer00eyz »

threeseed wrote: post #35
jcranmer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I gave up reading was when Nate started arguing that a degree from an Ivy League would look worse than a good state school to employers because those students are clearly political activist nincompoops. And it's like... first off, these trends have been going on for as long as I can remember (and I am no longer young), and second off, you got your fame doing good statistical analysis, surely you could back…

It's hilarious to see people up in arms about these students protesting. As though students from different generations didn't do exactly the same thing about the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam Wars.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2024/04/26/neil-you...

The irony of a group of people who loved the slang "ok boomer" going back to a boomer moment and a boomer song should not be lost on anyone...

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