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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#131

Post by hu3 »

op00to wrote: post #127
hu3 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In US, green bubble social peer-pressure does force many teens to buy iPhones.

“Force”? No one is forced to give in to peer pressure by buying something. It’s one thing to want to fit in, but then we should also force clothing to not have visible brands so kids can’t compare what clothes they have, and youth sports teams so kids can’t exclude non-sports playing peers.

The analogy doesn't hold because Nike shirts looks and behaves just the same regardless of my jeans brand.

Whereas a green bubble means degraded experience for the entire messaging group just because of that one guy.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#132

Post by api »

hn_version_0023 wrote: post #43
api wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I summarize the second point as “the Internet is a dark forest.” If it’s bad and it can be done it will be done, and at scale.

You have neatly summarized why I feel strongly that the Internet has become a liability to humanity. I have no illusions that we can shut it down or walk away… but on a personal level I am trying harder than ever to remove it from my own life. If I can stay off Reddit, well, I can eventually remove it all I think!

Use it for the things it’s useful for and avoid the addictionware, rage bait, gambling, and other trash.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#133

Post by cjk2 »

rpdillon wrote: post #126
cjk2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's more a problem with the humans than the technology.

I think it's economic. The US has free texting these days, which means SMS has more usage here than in another countries. This has prevented the entire nation from coalesing around one chat app, as so many others have.

It has been the same here in the UK for longer. I haven't paid for an SMS for over 20 years.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#134

Post by lupusreal »

glitchcrab wrote: post #104
lupusreal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice history lesson but sideloading alternate appstores (namely F-Droid) on Android works great and Apple shouldn't be allowed to forbid the same on iOS. And I don't give a damn about the "grandma conned into sideloading scam apps" scenario. Grandma is getting scammed over regular phonecalls already anyway.

So to extrapolate, you're fine with your grandma being scammed via a new avenue because she's already being scammed in other ways?

My grandma has an android phone and I'm fine with her having a phone that could permit her to sideload an app. Having a phone number at all is a far more serious threat, and I presume you are fine with your grandmother having one even though a scammer could talk her into giving up her bank details or buying dozens of gift cards and reading out the codes.

The solution to the grandmother scenarios is to have a trusted relative that works closely with them, who they trust to copilot or handle completely all business dealings. If that's not possible, then they're at risk whether they have an iphone or android.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#135

Post by realusername »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #105
rootusrootus wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It suggests that the iPhone wouldn't be able to hold its own in a market where interoperability with Android was easier It is just a statement of the obvious. Price tends to trump every other consideration, unless the difference is pretty big. See also airline ticket pricing and the race to the bottom in comfort & features. If there is no differentiator, a lot of people will just get Android phones because they cos…

> It is just a statement of the obvious. Price tends to trump every other consideration, unless the difference is pretty big. But, huge swaths of the public regularly pay much more than the minimum required to have better: • Cars • Clothing • Restaurants • Theater seats These are just the first few that come to mind. Now, is the difference between high- and low-end clothing "pretty big"? I guess it depends on what yo…

That's exactly why both Apple and Google needs to be opened up. Cars, clothing and restaurants do compete on the offering.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#136

Post by lamontcg »

In principle I like Apple being legally forced to crack open all their walled gardens, and I hate how far they've come from the open and hackable original Apple computers.

In practice, I worry that they're going to imminently pivot to a more Google like model of selling their customers out to any third party with cash. Right now they have the means to do that, but they're selling privacy as one of their features and they've been largely benevolent with your data. The end result of opening up the walled garden could be the rapid Enshittification of Apple.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#137

Post by threeseed »

talldayo wrote: post #100
Jtsummers wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't replace SMS. It is still there on every iPhone, and they expanded SMS reach for iPhone users who have other devices like iPad and macOs systems. In what universe do you exist where SMS was removed?

HN tells me that there's only one more step left after embracing and extending. Apple didn't make some mistake putting iMessage and SMS in the same app, they want you reliant on their service so that SMS seems (rightfully) poor by comparison. There would be nothing wrong with that if Apple wasn't equally as miserly with that power as the carriers they want to valiantly protest against. I'm no fan of cell carriers eit…

Apple never got rid of SMS. And there has been no embrace or extend.

All they did was put an optional message service in the same app.

One that isn’t even the most popular making it strange to say there is no competition.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#138

Post by grugagag »

api wrote: post #132
hn_version_0023 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have neatly summarized why I feel strongly that the Internet has become a liability to humanity. I have no illusions that we can shut it down or walk away… but on a personal level I am trying harder than ever to remove it from my own life. If I can stay off Reddit, well, I can eventually remove it all I think!

Use it for the things it’s useful for and avoid the addictionware, rage bait, gambling, and other trash.

It’s still too much of a time sink and even staying away from the bad parts brings so much distraction that we forget how to enjoy the simple things in life that make it worthwhile. Reading a book or watching a movie offline are cherished experiences many forgot how to savor in peace. Or leaving some questions unanswered for a while without wanting instant responses. Not to mention many forgo the outdoors entirely just in favor of time spent doing one thing or another online.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#139

Post by fidotron »

lupusreal wrote: post #37
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

That's a nice history lesson but sideloading alternate appstores (namely F-Droid) on Android works great and Apple shouldn't be allowed to forbid the same on iOS. And I don't give a damn about the "grandma conned into sideloading scam apps" scenario. Grandma is getting scammed over regular phonecalls already anyway.

So what you want is to remove the option of safety from those that want it because you personally do not see the need for it.

iOS is not close to a monopoly. People are perfectly free to have Android devices and side load apps on to them. It is curious that the campaigning focuses so strongly on destroying the high trust part that exists and not on promoting a trusted setup on Android.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#140

Post by jonp888 »

fidotron wrote: post #139
lupusreal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice history lesson but sideloading alternate appstores (namely F-Droid) on Android works great and Apple shouldn't be allowed to forbid the same on iOS. And I don't give a damn about the "grandma conned into sideloading scam apps" scenario. Grandma is getting scammed over regular phonecalls already anyway.

So what you want is to remove the option of safety from those that want it because you personally do not see the need for it. iOS is not close to a monopoly. People are perfectly free to have Android devices and side load apps on to them. It is curious that the campaigning focuses so strongly on destroying the high trust part that exists and not on promoting a trusted setup on Android.

Erm, what? Your statement makes no sense whatsoever.

It's perfectly reasonable for the default setting of a phone to forbid sideloading apps. And anyone who doesn't want to can leave it that way. That's the 'option of safety'.

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