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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#41

Post by pmarreck »

swingingFlyFish wrote: post #7

I think when companies become a 'necessity' like this, they have to be regulated or broken up. I'm not a big fan of Apple taking a commission if you port an app to their phone and I loathe the idea of having to use iCloud if I want to use Apple Pay, in fact, can't stand the idea of a phone company being my credit card company/bank either. And don't get me started on non standard USB...what was that? I applaud the EU…

I disagree. _I_ think that when companies become a "necessity" like this, they end up resting on their laurels because they won the economic game. And what happens next will happen regardless of regulation or not: They will begin their long but steady decline into irrelevance.

I state this as a huge Apple fan since 1984 when my family bought the first Mac: The best things to ever happen to Apple were almost dying in 1997, and (essentially, despite the M chips being fantastic technologically) losing the PC war (which I will argue was not due to price, but to 2 things: 1) failure to embrace the AAA gaming market and thus the mindshare of the next generation, and 2) re-closing the Mac platform after it was open, which it only did because the news kept reporting only on the impact to Apple sales and not the overall Mac market, which was actually growing at the time!)

> And don't get me started on non standard USB

Do you mean Lightning? That was a massive improvement (both physically in terms of design, by being reversible and supporting higher voltages as well as being durable) on both mini and micro USB and came out long before USB-C existed. And to this day, Apple devices are STILL some of the few devices that fully support the USB-C spec, as opposed to all the Chinese crapware that uses a USB-C plug but will fail to charge when plugged into anything but a USB-A charger because someone picked the cheap way out.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#43

Post by hn_version_0023 »

api wrote: post #20
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

I summarize the second point as “the Internet is a dark forest.” If it’s bad and it can be done it will be done, and at scale.

You have neatly summarized why I feel strongly that the Internet has become a liability to humanity. I have no illusions that we can shut it down or walk away… but on a personal level I am trying harder than ever to remove it from my own life. If I can stay off Reddit, well, I can eventually remove it all I think!

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#44

Post by s1k3s »

ChilledTonic wrote: post #32

I’ve been a recent convert to the iPhone. It gives me a unique perspective since I’ve spent almost my entire life in the Android ecosystem. I first bought an iPhone 5c on a whim, which is well out of support by apple, 5 versions behind the modern iOS. If you turn it on, all the default Apple apps work, in 2024. You can stream Apple Music and download podcasts with no App Store whatsoever. It’s a powerful little devic…

This has nothing to do with the classic Apple vs Android debate. It's about Apple's practices of pushing people to purchase the iPhone even if they might not want to.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#45

Post by Dalewyn »

fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

>Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. ... The exclusion of carriers from being able to make modifications to the phone was, and remains, an active feature for end users.

Japanese Android phones bought from carriers are fucking horrible because they have modifications both from the manufacturer (eg: Sony, Samsung) and the carrier.

I wonder if this is partially why Japan is among the few markets led by iOS rather than Android. I hate iOS, but Android from Japanese carriers is such a hellscape it might just be worth tolerating the former.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#46

Post by rootusrootus »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #25
ukuina wrote: post #2

It was very surprising that Apple did not strong-arm the EU by threatening to pull out of the area. The short-term loss of revenue from leaving the EU is nothing compared to the long-term decline this is going to cause in Apple's services/subscriptions revenue if the iPhone is commoditized.

They tried and lost. They can threaten all they want. The EU would let them and good riddance as far as we're concerned. But there is this pesky notion that it's a huge market and Apple earns a lot of money there. So, they really can't walk away from that. For the same reason they play by Chinese rules in China. Because it's a big market and they need to be in on that as well. And if you think the EU is picky, the Ch…

> The EU would let them and good riddance as far as we're concerned. But there is this pesky notion that it's a huge market and Apple earns a lot of money there. So, they really can't walk away from that.

Does that not seem contradictory to you? If it's a huge market they make a lot of money in, then there's by definition a lot of people who don't think "good riddance" if they leave. Apple has more leverage than you give them credit for.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#47

Post by yinser »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #14

Something I keep thinking about is how we’re seeing the end of what I call the “tech zeitgeist”. Started upon realizing that we‘ve likely seen the end of the social network era. No new social networking startups have popped-off in a while, and the recent ones are arguably more about connecting you to entertainers than friends. Besides that, a lot of the tech ideas from 2012-2020 have kind of fizzled out. 3D printing…

Why is Apple the most vulnerable? What is the argument? Half the planet uses their devices and their users see it as a superior product.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#48

Post by harpiaharpyja »

fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

Pretty much. What made the PC era work as well as it did was a strong base of power users, that could choose what tech to use and what to sideline.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#49

Post by rootusrootus »

da768 wrote: post #6
ukuina wrote: post #2

It was very surprising that Apple did not strong-arm the EU by threatening to pull out of the area. The short-term loss of revenue from leaving the EU is nothing compared to the long-term decline this is going to cause in Apple's services/subscriptions revenue if the iPhone is commoditized.

If Android becomes the only platform with a worldwide reach, no one's going to bother writing apps for iOS anymore.

That's a reach. If you want to make money in mobile apps, you target the US first. We could cut out the entirety of the rest of the world and the US market would still be plenty big enough to drive a lot of developers.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#50

Post by yinser »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #14

Something I keep thinking about is how we’re seeing the end of what I call the “tech zeitgeist”. Started upon realizing that we‘ve likely seen the end of the social network era. No new social networking startups have popped-off in a while, and the recent ones are arguably more about connecting you to entertainers than friends. Besides that, a lot of the tech ideas from 2012-2020 have kind of fizzled out. 3D printing…

“AI is only successful because these other unrelated tech super cycles are failing (they’re not)” is an insane argument. No one researches AI because 3D printing failed. Meta doesn’t buy H100s as a last resort. It’s a huge opportunity and the start of a an enormous super cycle that offers new services to customers and improves existing platforms.
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