ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say • Hacker News Board

Re: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say

#71

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 10:13 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #41

next_xibalba wrote: post #27

India banned TikTok (without the option to divest) and everything was fine. And they didn't limit the ban to TikTok: "TikTok wasn’t a one-off case. Today, India has banned over 500 Chinese apps to date." [1] If ByteDance won't sell, let them shutdown. It is truly baffling to me that anyone would defend a company's right to operate freely in the U.S. when it is controlled by a brutal autocracy that is also an emerging…

In India users that had it installed could continue to use it. And downloading it in India is trivial. On iPhone it's as simple as changing your region, on Android you just need to install the APK (installer) - which TikTok makes conveniently available on their website. I learned this from a quick search of 'how to install TikTok in India' which is apparently quite the common search in India. [1] I tried to dig up so…

> So it was a toothless ban.

The ban just doesn't apply to end users, but also to advertisers and content producers in the USA. That would have some impact, what is the point of distributing your app if you can't make any money on it.

> By contrast, US wanted to have their cake and eat it too - keep TikTok and gain complete control over it.

The law just specifies that it can't be owned by Chinese. A german company could buy it instead.

> And while I know basically nothing about Indian law I'm fairly certain they have a much better legal argument in the US as well.

That is making a lot of assumptions (I don't why they banned it, but I'm sure their reason must be better than the USA's...because they are India and the USA is worse?).

Re: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say

#72

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 10:15 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #54

_mlbt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t China also demand complete control of foreign apps in their country? Correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is that the CCP demands specific changes to or outright removal of apps all the time.

In general, yes. This [1] is the first paragraph of the first article of their constitution: "The People’s Republic of China is a socialist state under the people’s democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants. The socialist system is the basic system of the People’s Republic of China. Disruption of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibi…

> This [1] is the first paragraph of the first article of their constitution: "The People’s Republic of China is a socialist state under the people’s democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants.

Technically, freedom of speech, religion, press is guaranteed in the Chinese constitution. But China is not a rule of law country so these rights are not enforced in any manner beyond how the government sees fit.

Re: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say

#73

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 10:17 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #69

glimshe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Korea also declares itself "democratic", just to add to the parent.

It's a bit different with China. China has a mandated one party system, but as for individuals they do have normal and fair elections that I think even the US could learn something from. Basically at the smallest segment of society you have groups of something like 2000 people who have a local elected representative who has significant power to actually get things done. Those representatives then elect representative…

The funny part is that they give you something like 31 names and tell you to pick 30 of them that you want to be elected (so one person gets left out). Early in his career, Xi Jinping actually lost his only direct election this way (they ignored the results and gave him the post anyways). Even at the lowest level, there are definitely never any one on one elections where two people can campaign for the same office, the system doesn't allow for that.

Re: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say

#74

Post by vineyardmike » Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 4:55 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #26

Unsurprising, I suppose. Google didn't sell their China operations to the Chinese government's choice. It's a sign of declining US power that this nation has to resort to the same moves as China does. Previously, American stuff was just better and protectionism wasn't required. Now the Chinede thing is better so we have to do this. Can't be helped. Everything must play out this way. We're too weak to just beat them s…

> Previously, American stuff was just better and protectionism wasn't required

Most profits from social media globally is still US businesses (Meta, Google, Snap, etc).

> We're too weak to just beat them so we're forced to do this. But we still have to do it.

Completely agree, but...

Protectionism isn't always just to help local business succeed in the market place - sometimes it's strategic to ensure local skill exists (eg aerospace companies and nat'l defense), or some other similar localized outcome (eg. job creation, pride, etc). I think foreign companies controlling popular media distribution through an opaque and un-auditable algorithm is a propaganda and manipulation liability, so intervention is good. (obviously propaganda is still possible, just more localized).

Re: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say

#75

Post by roncesvalles » Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 10:47 PM UTC

coolbreezetft24 wrote: post #11

deadbabe wrote: post #4

It’s exciting to think that by this time next year, TikTok can be nothing more than a distant memory. RIP Vine

There will just be something else that's basically the same thing

The bill bans all software created by Bytedance.