61–70 of 116 posts
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Green threads only mean a M:N mapping to OS threads.
Right, is the N (OS threads) == 1 in this case? It's a specific, technical way of asking if it can run parallel workloads across modern multi-core CPUs.
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When it starts up there's a welcome-window, in it or like a few clicks down there's a tutorial called ProfStef that gives a quick tour through some data types and ways to execute code. I think that's a pretty neat introduction to the very basic basics.
Interesting, I'll have to take a look at that when I have some time. I may have missed that the first time around. Thanks!
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real world example means end user applications, not developer tools. i want to see how an application looks like that my mother could use, or that i could sell to my customer. websites. desktop applications that hide the IDE...
Your applications would look however you wanted them look. https://pharo.org/success/
the success page lists 53 projects. only one of them came with a direct link to the source. one included an un-clickable link. one linked to a non-english website where i could figure out that it was licensed under the LGPL, but i could not find the link to the source.
a surprise was that DrGeo which is known to be Free Software links to a dead website. grafoscopio which i also believe to be FOSS as well has a dead download link on its website.
several other projects had dead links too.
the only source i found was for
HoneyGinger: https://github.com/tomooda/HoneyGinger
OpenPonk https://github.com/OpenPonk
and record: https://github.com/estebanlm/record (7 years old)
btw, DrGeo is here: https://github.com/hilaire/drgeo
that is three source examples under active development
for a project as old and as large as pharo is that is surprisingly little.
more accessible source examples are needed to attract developers. especially given the difficulty to get used to the pharo developer tools.
i have actively explored working with pharo. i just could not find any useful apps that i could use and contribute to. and i had no ideas for an app that i'd be interested enough to create from scratch.
for a while i even tried to use it as a desktop and used an app that provides a commandline inside pharo.
the primary problem was that upgrading to a new version of pharo each year was difficult. given the image based development you tend to start with a current version of pharo and then keep to that version until you are done.
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Many comments in the vein that pharo is weird and different from what they're used to. I'd say programming is such a young field programmers should dedicate time to try out the weird stuff that they aren't used to, opportunities to rewire your brain for better. Let's not get stuck in a local minima on how to do programming. There could be better ways not yet popular enough. Smalltalk came out of an environment of inn…
Smalltalk had a moment at the transition from green screen to PC's, fumbled the everything is a string internet, and never showed-up for the multicore + GPU party. Meanwhile the nasty statically type checked languages lowered the pain level with non-nullable and type inference for local vars.
Who does Pharo want to compete with? Maybe developers think they shouldn't compete with other platforms? With the amount of real Pharo apps right now even on GitHub, it would be extremely difficult to "sell" Pharo to any decision maker.
Many comments in the vein that pharo is weird and different from what they're used to. I'd say programming is such a young field programmers should dedicate time to try out the weird stuff that they aren't used to, opportunities to rewire your brain for better. Let's not get stuck in a local minima on how to do programming. There could be better ways not yet popular enough. Smalltalk came out of an environment of inn…
I don't like Pharo because they changed it too radically from Squeak, which I DO like very much.
Weirdest programming language/IDE/Runtime/everything I've ever attempted learning. The sheer oddity + lack of real world example code floating around made it feel impenetrable. To put it into perspective, picking up Rust and writing entry level but real world applications was a walk in the park after coming to terms with the ownership system.
I agree with you. I've worked for a while at a company using it in production [1]. For learning Pharo (while not working at a company), I've learned that going to ESUG [1] and Pharo Days [2] (2 conferences) is the best way to actually learn. On ESUG there are many professional Smalltalkers, including people that write Pharo. And on Pharo Days there are many OG Pharo devs. They can teach you certain things much quicke…
I also fear that leaning so heavily on a closed, corporate platform like Discord as the community hub may lead to tears in a few years. If you're leaning into the idea that "the community is the documentation," you're at Discord's mercy for community sustainment, on top of the already hairy problem of surfacing solutions from within the depths of a long-running discussion forum. Sure, running everything off of mailing lists + IRC like older open source projects do would be a clear step backwards, but being stuck with Discord has been a mild turn-off for me.
Finally, it's worth noting that development is spearheaded by folks in France and Latin America for whom English may not be their primary language. That doesn't affect their ability to do good work! It's totally worth reflecting on how something attempting to approximate natural-language programming in English ended up forked outside the Anglosphere! But I also feel like it'd be worth having an editor take a cleanup pass at future versions of the main ebooks. I've got both the books that Alexandre Bergel published through Apress, and they're both solid, but if the first-resort resources were up to the same standard, I think perhaps fewer people would come away with an unfavorable impression. Of course, that's over and above simply keeping them up to date as development progresses - I believe Pharo by Example is still on version 9?