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FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

nytimes.com

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Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#451

Post by lokar »

tacocataco wrote: post #359
lokar wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, but disagree on one point: What is a party? I think there still is a Republican Party that fits your description. I meet them in every day life all the time. They are reasonable, agree on many things, and are willing to seek compromise. I hope they are the majority, if not the voting majority. But they are not well represented by 90% of the current Republican office holders.

Perhaps those conservatives you're referring to would like to vote for a more moderate candidate, but they are chained to the Republicans via First Past The Post voting.

That, and some just don’t vote

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#452

Post by Spivak »

pictureofabear wrote: post #386
mvkel wrote: post #176

The quote "markets can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent" comes to mind. Governments can stay irrational longer than you can stay vigilant. It's frustrating that a decision can be made at great effort in support of net neutrality, only for a new bill to easily be introduced that undermines it yet again. I guess that's a feature of democracy, not a bug. But I can imagine these battles gets harder an…

If Congress stepped in to mandate it, the flip-flopping wouldn't happen. You said it. This is a feature of the US government. It allows prototyping of policies before codifying them.

Is that actually true or would the flipping just happen every time the majority party changes?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#453

Post by rixthefox »

pyuser583 wrote: post #429
ryukoposting wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free basic internet like Wikipedia and news at a lower cost. I can't comprehend why you think ISPs would feel compelled to be so altruistic without any government intervention. Except, since when was free wi-fi an impossible thing to find? Ever been to a coffee shop? Even in the "free shitty half-internet for everyone" pipe dream, the costs of such a service don't just magically disappear. Either way, someone's pay…

The internet, in it’s current non-net-neutral form, is very popular.

So the Internet before 2016 wasn’t popular because it had net neutrality? That’s definitely a new one. Is that you Pai?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#454

Post by reaperman »

nobody9999 wrote: post #430
reaperman wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's the order itself or just a very detailed "fact sheet" about the orde. It seems like it references the content of the order in great detail, allowing someone to figure it out, but I don't see the raw text of the rule there unless I just don't understand what FCC rules look like. I read a lot of FTC rules and court documents, but this the first time I'm looking for the full text of something the FCC…

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-401676A1.pdf

Yes that is just the "FCC FACT SHEET" as it says in the top title of the document. It is not the actual rule/action. It is also the exact same link that the poster just above me already gave.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#455

Post by kibwen »

thegrim33 wrote: post #376
feoren wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your first post in this thread containing partisan flamebait getting flagged into destruction wasn't enough for you? You toned down the cultish political speech about 30% but posted effectively the same comment again. Your posts do not create useful discourse, they just create political flame wars with echo chamber 1 fighting echo chamber 2. [Edit] Looking through your history you seem to often make similar political…

As someone who was fortunate enough to see their previous comment, it sure wasn't wrong, though it sure was inconvenient for the Temporarily Embarrassed Billionaires here who are happy to sleepwalk the rest of us into fascism if it means making another buck.

As for rooting through their comment history, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, my friend. So far yours is "cars good", "California bad", "won't someone think of the poor companies (unironically)", "public transit bad", "everyone does propaganda so it's okay when Russia does it". Is this comment hate-based, in your opinion?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#456

Post by vampiresdoexist »

ohdannyboy wrote: post #448
vampiresdoexist wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. I would encourage a different, less intense angle here. It’s possible the doomsday didn’t come to pass because a lot of passionate people worked very hard to make sure we avoided it.

Possible, but is there any reason to believe so? I'm open to hear it. The whole point was that companies like Comcast don't give a crap what we think and will engage in this anti competitive behavior unless the FCC stops them. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt they would if it was in their financial interest. But can we agree that it is also possible that market incentives aligned and the infographics depicting tv-…

Sure, maybe those bundles weren’t right around the corner. But the fight for NN probably incentivized the MBA grads to not explore those options with fervor.

And it’s very reasonable to assume that avoiding a monopoly case or being classified as a utility is enough of an incentive.

But I have a preference for putting up the defenses on all fronts when it comes to ISPs and their unlimited creative chicanery.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#458

Post by bagavi »

vampiresdoexist wrote: post #439
ohdannyboy wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably because none of the hysterics or doomsday propaganda actually came to pass.

Hm. I would encourage a different, less intense angle here. It’s possible the doomsday didn’t come to pass because a lot of passionate people worked very hard to make sure we avoided it.

The null hypothesis is that market forces takes care of it. Like your airline ticket prices. The onus of proof is on you to market forces aren't enough.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#460

Post by mindslight »

komali2 wrote: post #396
LastTrain wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some libertarian dream the FCC lacks authority...

The American libertarian dream confuses me because unlike libertarians abroad (where it's a synonym with "anarchist") they stop with political authority, and seem to have no issue with corporate authority. The ISP business in the USA is very clearly an oligopoly with the top players colluding. Not sure how a rugged individual is supposed to fight back against that.

It's just another system of control. Temporarily embarrassed millionaires and all that. And once the desire for freedom has been transmuted into support for corporate authoritarianism, the money flows and the political hacks get to work shoring up the platform for the sponsors.

I don't think 'libertarian' has to be synonymous with 'anarchist', but US libertarianism desperately needs an analog of anarchism-without-adjectives and to drop the axiomatic-fundamentalist approach that ends up fooling so many into supporting authoritarianism. Coercion is not some binary thing, but rather a matter of degree based on power differentials.

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