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FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

nytimes.com

411–420 of 598 posts

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#411
post #407

I'm fully in support of net neutrality, but I'm somewhat surprised they're restoring it, as I have not really heard a peep about it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then (my experience did not upgrade or downgrade). People stopped talking about it, there weren't major protests, news about it even largely disappeared from the front page of HN (!).…

> it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then I got downvoted heavily years ago on HN for predicting this when it was making the rounds There is almost no evidence of a tiered model either working or being legitimately attempted, even globally in places without these rules. The only evidence I was ever given was some tiny Portugese mobile network ent…

This rule does, however, effectively regulate the prices that broadband providers charge consumers, as it disallows high-volume customers from being charged a higher periodic rate than lower-volume consumers. If that's not regulating prices, it's not at all clear what might be.

Just like Obamacare, another gift from the left that has worked out so well...

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some libertarian dream the FCC lacks authority...

The American libertarian dream confuses me because unlike libertarians abroad (where it's a synonym with "anarchist") they stop with political authority, and seem to have no issue with corporate authority. The ISP business in the USA is very clearly an oligopoly with the top players colluding. Not sure how a rugged individual is supposed to fight back against that.

The usual claim in right libertarian circles is that monopolies only arise because they can bribe the government into passing laws that enable them to exist.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#413

I'm fully in support of net neutrality, but I'm somewhat surprised they're restoring it, as I have not really heard a peep about it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then (my experience did not upgrade or downgrade). People stopped talking about it, there weren't major protests, news about it even largely disappeared from the front page of HN (!).…

Because California saved it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_P... If any of the companies that wanted to exploit the lack of FCC enforced net neutrality did business with California they would have had a big problem.

This, and that it is far more profitable for ISPs to aggregate our traffic patterns and sell them to ad companies and governments than to drive people to VPNs by raising awareness of the reasons we can't trust them.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#414
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is much more democratic than attempting to craft law by executive fiat What exactly "more democratic" means is a bit unclear to me. Is an act of Congress more democratic than agency policy because more reps voted on it? Is it more democratic because the reps who voted on it were elected rather than appointed by people who were elected like over at those agencies? Or is a policy democratic based on its alignment…

Also: Is it less democratic because unlike laws, there's an open comment period for the public to make their voice heard? (unlike laws or executive orders) Is it less democratic because it's policy being implemented by people who spend a lot of time thinking about the policy and its effects, rather than by some blowhard trying to score culture war points on twitter than making a policy?

I'm confused by your questions. Are you suggesting that ignoring the structure of government carefully laid out in the constitution and agreed upon by every state in the union is more democratic because you like the outcome?

This is happening in an election year, so the office of the presidency is driving this for political reasons. I sincerely doubt you'd be comfortable having someone you disagree with politically wield the same powers in the same way.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#415
post #12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that these agencies and their powers did not spring up out of thin air. Various elected Congress sessions wrote the laws that created and empowered these agencies to create rules. This is a reasonable implementation of a "democratic republic" as Congress still has oversight.

The problem with merely having regulations rather than laws is not a concern that they may not have proper legal authority, but that they are less durable and more easily overturned than laws passed by Congress and signed by the President.

That was their design to be agile. Regulations can get passed in 100 days and not years.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps one commonality is that we all seem inclined to assume the other half makes political decisions out of spite.

The data suggests that "both sides" isn't really the case here. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17457289.2019.15... "these results suggest that Trump was able to leverage populist anger for political advantage in ways that other candidates were not and that such anti-elitism played an important and underappreciated role in explaining the outcome of the [2016] presidential election." *Edit - added year in…

Not going to pay 50 bucks to read that article, but if the term "populist anger" is used there in its common meaning, it's not about "other side" at all. It's mainly about people feeling supposedly representative government has abandoned any pretense of representing the population and their interests, and that understandably makes some people feel bad about it. It's not about pissing off some imaginary opponent, it's about making the persons taking decisions hear what the population is concerned about. And yes, a lot of people supported Trump because they thought - and think (correctly or incorrectly) that Trump is more attentive to these concerns than the alternatives.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that is a very cynical view? The party or parties you disagree with may not share your views, but they do have many things in common with you. In order to build bridges with other parties, it's important to believe that the majority of people who get involved in government, regardless of party, are motivated primarily by the desire to serve their neighbors and their country; otherwise they would find…

That's a wonderful perspective, and largely shared by one party! If you can make the other party act like adults, we'll be in business.

thats what both parties say. Those who make blanket statements like this tends to be partisan hacks filled with extremely low levels of information.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bit of an extreme comment “seeking medical help” but to be fair I’m only aware of the “to 1953” legislation and not the additional “to 1853” legislation.

Are you aware that Arizona recently reinstated an abortion ban from 1864? https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/us/arizona-abortion-ban.h...

did they actually reinstate? isnt it just that newer legislation was made illegal, and it DEFAULTED back to this, where there is proposals by republicans to make legislation that in many ways mirrors most EU countries, but that is unacceptable to the democrats?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#419
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then I got downvoted heavily years ago on HN for predicting this when it was making the rounds There is almost no evidence of a tiered model either working or being legitimately attempted, even globally in places without these rules. The only evidence I was ever given was some tiny Portugese mobile network ent…

This rule does, however, effectively regulate the prices that broadband providers charge consumers, as it disallows high-volume customers from being charged a higher periodic rate than lower-volume consumers. If that's not regulating prices, it's not at all clear what might be. Just like Obamacare, another gift from the left that has worked out so well...

It does not disallow charging consumers for traffic used. But why should they be able to charge for it twice?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#420
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment isn't directed at OP, it's directed at anyone reading this who might be tempted to get swept up in OP's stereotypes without thinking critically about them. I'm writing this as a left-leaning moderate who grew up among staunch conservatives and understands their philosophy very well. Conservatives sincerely believe that government bureaucracies are less efficient than a free market economy. That's not a c…

I agree with your statements, and they were true until sometime between Newt taking over and Trump being elected. They used to have a a coherent positive viewpoint and policy to support it. And they sought to advance that policy through normal democratic means: convincing a majority of voters. That has stopped being their approach. They no longer seek a genuine popular majority. They are turning inwards, adopting eve…

It stopped being true after the Romney loss. They wrote a report [1] that basically outlined the fact that due to demographic trends and the makeup of Republican electorate, the RNC would have to start becoming a big tent, multicultural party in order to succeed in the future.

The decided exactly the opposite -- they elected Trump and decided to become a party based on white Christian grievance.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_%26_Opportunity_Project

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