Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#971

Post by hot_gril » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:04 PM UTC

DaveExeter wrote: post #740

hot_gril wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always in favor of banning it for this reason, but I'm concerned that Biden is now banning it for a different reason. The timing is interesting. Certain lobby groups have been urging Congress on this due to TikTok videos about the war in Gaza. Then again, Trump was also trying to ban it for his own reasons.

That's the real reason! AIPAC wants Tiktok gone because young people are getting objective information rather than the propaganda of mainstream "responsible" media. [1] Tiktok is not a good thing for Genocide Joe either! He has been an Israeli puppet for decades. Thanks to Tiktok, being an Israeli puppet has become a political liability because Israel has lost its control over American minds. [1] https://twitter.com/…

Has AIPAC in particular said this too? Because I've seen JFNA's letter to Congress encouraging a ban but nothing from AIPAC so far.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#972

Post by dbbk » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:06 PM UTC

kromem wrote: post #648

danieltanfh95 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it doesn’t say “ban” doesn’t mean its not one. It is well known that China lists algorithms and AI models trained on citizen data as a non-export so tiktok will never be able to sell to anyone other than a Chinese company unless they retrain the model etc. The CEO has mentioned that they will simply pull out of the US market.

Theoretically they could sell "TikTok" to a US company who then licenses algorithm processing to the Chinese entity, no? The US entity isn't beholden to the CCP and can decide to switch algorithm providers if they suddenly notice it's getting very propaganda-y, which provides a degree of independent oversight appeasing US concerns while not necessitating actually switching from the current systems.

"TikTok" in the US is already a US-based company in LA.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#973

Post by j0hnyl » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:08 PM UTC

rzz3 wrote: post #787

returningfory2 wrote: post #38

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

It’s alarming to me that you think the owners of arguably the most successful social media company in the world would sell it only to appease a single country. It comes off as a typical American perspective of thinking they’re the center of the world. At TikTok’s current global growth rate, they could exceed the entire user base of the USA in just a few months. I’m not sure how that user share corresponds to revenue…

The advertising market in the US pretty much eclipses the whole rest of the world, so yes the owners are very likely to sell it to appease a single country.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#974

Post by majani » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:23 PM UTC

czbond wrote: post #345

majani wrote: post #307

Asset seizure over data that mainly contains mindless entertainment? This is a new low for the US as a business environment in my opinion.

Wouldn't you as a government rather control your own citizens through mindless entertainment and algorithms than a foreign government? This isn't about China per se.....

Are we also going to go ban Fortnite and Unreal Engine for producing mindless entertainment from China?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#975

Post by barfingclouds » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:47 PM UTC

returningfory2 wrote: post #38

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

Nope it doesn’t ban TikTok from having Chinese owners. TikTok could very well continue to have Chinese owners, and if so the US will ban the product domestically

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#976

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 8:40 PM UTC

astrea wrote: post #508

ThinkBeat wrote: post #372

I hope this will show the severity of threats countries face from social media and that things are no longer business as usual. Every European country /and/or EU/ECC as a block, as well as every other nation or block, should follow this up as soon as permitted to have all social media apps operated by a foreign country be subject to the same legislation. TikTok will have to sel to the US, Netherlands, France, Germany…

Yes and while we’re at it, we should simply relinquish control of these companies to the government. Perhaps any company remotely journalistic in nature. For safety of course.

[deleted]

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#977

Post by zrn900 » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 9:16 PM UTC

> Would you think it would've been a good idea to have foreign investors from Nazi Germany run newspapers and radios in the states in the 1930s and leading up there?

They didn't need to - William Hearst - the Murdoch of the era - signed a $500,000/year contract with the Nazi Government and did that propaganda on their behalf.

It was worse after the US entered the war - legions of US companies kept trading with Nazis and even provided technology to them - like the technology that was used in developing half trucks. The oil, equipment and technology that the US companies were still selling to the Nazis through intermediary countries were killing American soldiers.

Did anything happen to them? No - they were persecuted for 'trading with the enemy' and got off with a slap on the wrist and KEPT TRADING with Nazis until the end of the war.

...

So no, your example does not hold any weight. The only reason the US is trying to ban Tiktok is because it cant compete and it doesn't own a big piece of it.

Its anti competitive behavior and its not new - despite yammering about 'free trade', the US applies trade quotas even to the allies it has 'free trade' agreements with. 'Free trade' is in quotes, because the 'free trade' always happens on the US side - if the other side starts doing too much 'free trade', the US does what it is doing to Tiktok - ban them.

This is despicable as hell. It will gimp the position of the US in world trade A LOT.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#978

Post by zrn900 » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 9:17 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #548

returningfory2 wrote: post #38

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

> A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China

Every company that complies with the local laws can open any kind of company in China and they do.

The US has to do the same per WTO law as long as Tiktok obeys the US law. And it does. Hence the made up 'national security' horsesh*t to justify the ban - otherwise it would run afoul of WTO rules.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#979

Post by ironick09 » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 10:59 PM UTC

ThalesX wrote: post #962

intellix wrote: post #64

if you've been to China, you'll know that they ban all western products: facebook, google, etc etc and replaced them with their own variants. If they want to run around free-range without any restriction with their own products then they should respond by loosening restrictions in their own country. This is an absolute no-brainer. If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Am I missing something?

Have you been to China? I've been to China and had no problems using all the things you're mentioning with the help of a VPN. Was it as easy as in Europe? No. Did it feel like a ban? Also no.

Was it a ban? Also yes

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#980

Post by jonesn11 » Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 4:24 AM UTC

The algorithm's novelty and recommendation accuracy is so far beyond what other competitors like Google, Snapchat, and Meta have that this seems like a coordinated effort by the private sector to push forth their mediocre products and centralize social media service which I absolutely DETEST. The saddest thing is that it seems like the U.S citizens, (i.e ANY of tiktoks 160 MILLION US users) have absolutely no say in the operations, yet we actually interact with the app not these old people in Congress. The fact that Biden so swiftly signed the bill too makes me frustrated as I want to vote for him, but he keeps doing or okaying things that are counter to my values.