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FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

nytimes.com

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Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#71

Post by smsm42 »

wredue wrote: post #44
SeanAnderson wrote: post #13

I'm happy this reversal occurred, but I am exhausted by the continuous flip-flopping of legislation depending on which party is in charge. Feels like we're stagnating as a nation by going in a circle rather than finding commonality to go forward. Maybe it's always been this way though and I'm just getting old enough to be bothered by it?

[flagged]

> when half the populations entire political identity is “whatever we think will make the other side angry”?

I assume those are the guys who are voting for the party opposed to one you're voting for, correct?

> actively stifling progress is not actually funny

Another thing that is less than funny is assuming that there's some universal definiton of "progress" and those who disagree are just doing it out of stupid stubbornness, unwilling to concede the obvious truth.

> It is not possible for me to base my legislative direction on “everyone that is not cis white is bad”.

It's not possible to anybody. Literally nobody does that. It's a crude caricature. By perpetuating this caricature as if it had any bearing to reality, you are a major part of the problem.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#72

Post by RRWagner »

karaterobot wrote: post #29

I'm fully in support of net neutrality, but I'm somewhat surprised they're restoring it, as I have not really heard a peep about it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then (my experience did not upgrade or downgrade). People stopped talking about it, there weren't major protests, news about it even largely disappeared from the front page of HN (!).…

I was one of the "peeps" testifying to the California Assembly committee that promptly made Net Neutrality a CA thing even if not yet Federal.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#73

Post by seanp2k2 »

granzymes wrote: post #59
SeanAnderson wrote: post #13

I'm happy this reversal occurred, but I am exhausted by the continuous flip-flopping of legislation depending on which party is in charge. Feels like we're stagnating as a nation by going in a circle rather than finding commonality to go forward. Maybe it's always been this way though and I'm just getting old enough to be bothered by it?

The Supreme Court is poised to decide a case this term, Loper Bright , which should help restore more finality to decisions like this. Because agencies receive considerable deference to their interpretation of the law, even when that interpretation flip-flops every four years, we never get a definitive ruling on what the law says. The Court seems likely to greatly reduce this deference, leading to more consistency.

[flagged]

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#74

Post by cityofdelusion »

mrguyorama wrote: post #42
bearjaws wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd flip it and say its what happens when Congress has been dysfunctional for over a decade. It's not even possible to get a house bill with net neutrality passed without it included 99 other things that will inevitably get the bill punted on forever. Congress could have drafted this anytime if they had seen fit, but they are "too busy" fighting ideology wars.

[flagged]

There are de-facto one party systems in many cities, counties, and some states. They all suffer from getting nothing done. “Both sides” is a legitimate observation by those who recognize politics as upper class nobility vs the peasants. They run in the same social circles. We’re still primates at our core.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#75

Post by jrockway »

bearjaws wrote: post #26
bgentry wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's partly what happens when such important rules are determined by who is appointed at an executive agency, rather than requiring an act of Congress. The former can be trivially gamed by the party in power after each election, whereas getting Congress to take action on something can be difficult and requires you to first get them motivated to do so at a given moment.

I'd flip it and say its what happens when Congress has been dysfunctional for over a decade. It's not even possible to get a house bill with net neutrality passed without it included 99 other things that will inevitably get the bill punted on forever. Congress could have drafted this anytime if they had seen fit, but they are "too busy" fighting ideology wars.

To be fair Congress does some work. They have avoided 2 government shutdowns. They funded the war efforts in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. They passed the infrastructure bill.

The reality is, they just don't care about net neutrality. I'm still mad that they haven't passed the bill that gets rid of DST (or rather, gets rid of standard time). Everyone wants it in both parties. Just get it done.

Even more annoying is the whole Section 174 debacle. Completely killing the field of software engineering in the US.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#76

Post by huytersd »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #13

I'm happy this reversal occurred, but I am exhausted by the continuous flip-flopping of legislation depending on which party is in charge. Feels like we're stagnating as a nation by going in a circle rather than finding commonality to go forward. Maybe it's always been this way though and I'm just getting old enough to be bothered by it?

Part of the reason some one like Modi came into power and has been able to maintain it (amongst many other reasons) is people were disgusted by the continuous reversal of administrations and their policies. Nothing ever progressed to completion. That malcontent is generally settling into the west as well and strongmen are looking more and more attractive. The auth option in the US is a regressive dummy, but India, China and several African, Latin American and South East Asian countries have competent people filling those roles.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#77

Post by chrisfinazzo »

jonathankoren wrote: post #53
chrisfinazzo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet in functioning legislative bodies (think: parliamentary systems), employing something like Hastert doesn't require any enforcement at all. They don't typically require supermajorities to pass laws, and those in the minority don't have the means to substantively object to bills they disagree with. A man can dream.

You may not realize it, but this is exactly how it works in the House of Representatives today, and is the exact cause of dysfunction.

I should have been more precise - the Senate's rules are garbage and should be hurled into the Sun. More generally, my comments come from watching PMQ's in the House of Commons and seeing that the party out of power really doesn't have many tools to slow down the opposite sides agenda.

If such a system was implemented in the US, it would force politicians to more carefully consider their positions -- no confidence votes and a motion to vacate serve the man functional purpose as a stick to get people in line, which might not otherwise be possible if they consistently took unpopular positions.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#78

Post by seanp2k2 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #42
bearjaws wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd flip it and say its what happens when Congress has been dysfunctional for over a decade. It's not even possible to get a house bill with net neutrality passed without it included 99 other things that will inevitably get the bill punted on forever. Congress could have drafted this anytime if they had seen fit, but they are "too busy" fighting ideology wars.

[flagged]

And when the House Speaker won’t even let it get to a vote in the first place, no one has any motivation to even draft such a bill. But yeah let’s ban TikTok because in theory they could do something bad that every US-based company already does. Way to represent the will of the people, House.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#79

Post by Retric »

granzymes wrote: post #70
chimeracoder wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hard to see how reducing deference could lead to less consistency. You are literally commenting on a post about the FCC reinterpreting their authority to regulate internet broadband years after the lawsuits over the original Net Neutrality laws concluded. If Loper Bright had been decided ten years ago we would already know today whether the FCC possessed this authority or not and it would be settled. Instead, we are…

Case 1: Changing after clear notification is not ambiguous.

Case 2: Waiting until every single individual aspect of every single law is litigated means for years to decades the actual meaning is ambiguous until each court case finishes.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#80

Post by lr4444lr »

redserk wrote: post #16
wtallis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with merely having regulations rather than laws is not a concern that they may not have proper legal authority, but that they are less durable and more easily overturned than laws passed by Congress and signed by the President.

I agree, and I'd rather Congress weigh in now that we've had this specific issue flip-flop twice. I do not like the implication that agency rulemaking is anti-democratic though. We have utilized this structure for well over 120 years, or practically half of the country's history.

The scope creep of these agencies in recent decades is substantial, though.

It's one thing to set rules for dumping that protect wildlands, or verify drugs in the medical supply chain aren't toxic.

Deciding the rules of commerce? I'm less than thrilled.

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