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We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

federalregister.gov

241–250 of 395 posts

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#241
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you basically revealing yourself anyway because you need to pay them?

AWS has my name and my credit card number. But they have never asked for a photocopy of my passport, my history of international travel, which nationalities I have and so on. Something tells me that for the goal of this law to be achieved, all those details would need to enter the database.

Not necessarily (although that doesn't necessarily mean I think this is OK). Payment-card-based verification is a longstanding method of doing prima-facie verification like this. When you give your credit card, you give your billing address and typically your phone number -- if the postal code is a US address and the phone number is a US area code and everything else is consistent with that, that might be all the KYC required. If you appear to be a foreign national operating outside the US, they can flag that and require additional paperwork only then.

This proposed rule looks to me like it basically requires providers to come up with their own verification plans, which may then differ from provider to provider, so as to be "flexible and minimally burdensome to their business operations".

[note for the following: I am not a lawyer. The following is not legal advice. Do not fold, spindle or multilate. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.]

The real danger, I think, with things like this is, there's an executive order that was issued, but it further specified a rulemaking process be conducted to determine the actual regulations that define compliance. The link in the title is to the proposed rule. There's nothing that says any amount of prior public input will necessarily influence the details of the final rule, or that rule can't change in the future through another rulemaking process, and if it does the only way to challenge it is either to sue the agency on the grounds that it exceeded its discretion (e.g. by making rules that require unconstitutional things) or that the enabling executive order is itself unconstitutional -- but these kinds of federal cases have a pretty high bar for what's called "standing" (the legal grounds to bring a particular lawsuit): you pretty much have to suffer concrete harm or be in obvious and imminent danger of suffering it to a grievous degree. (This is one reason you hear about "test cases" -- often somebody will agree to be the goat who is denied something, fined, or even arrested and convicted of a crime, so that standing to sue to overturn the law can be established.) Other times, if a lot of potential defendants already have standing, a particularly sympathetic defendant will be selected for the actual challenge. The US federal courts are also deferential to "agency discretion" by default, as a matter of doctrine.

What happens all too often with these things is, the initial rulemaking is pretty reasonable, and the public outrage (if there was any) dissipates. Then three years (or however long) on, the next rulemaking imposes onerous restrictions and strict criteria, and people suddenly (relatively speaking) wake up and find they're now in violation of federal regulations that they were in compliance with last week. (This is one reason public-interest groups are so critical -- they have the motivation and sustained attention to comb the Federal Register for announcements about upcoming rounds of rulemaking on various topics.)

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#242
post #201
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are declared in an emergency (most of them are sanctions to freeze money and freedoms of foreigners). That does not mean you live in an emergency. That they are still active means only that the Parlament was too lazy or too blocked to put them in a law.

Legally, it means exactly that - the government wasn't allowed to do X, but they said the magic word "emergency", and now they are allowed to do X as much as they want, until they decide they are done. Of course, this means they were always allowed to do X, it's just that the public will eat it more easily if instead of saying "the government can take your freedoms anytime" they'd say "the government can't take you f…

What you describe is the abuse of the power. In the list of US emergencies 80% are sanctions (which qualify as emergencies I would say bc they would not work), 15% real emergencies and the there are the ones which start to be controversial. All what I am saying is: it is a tool for an government. Governments do things wrong. They wrongfully arrest, invade countries, collaterally murder, take bribes, etc. That is daily happening. And the courts and Parlament habe the job to fix , prevent or correct that.

It is not easy to run your life, company or government org without doing once in a while something wrong. It is how you behave afterwards and overall which matters.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#243
post #21

Skimming through the article, it seems like the extent of this is to require IAAS (Infrastructure) providers to verify the identity of those who are using their services to train AI. It's an attempt to stymie sanctioned or malicious actors, from training AI and especially from hopping between services or using aliases to continue training on their model. It seems a bit benign and I don't understand the parallels othe…

> It seems a bit benign This seems, to me, an utterly malignant attack on anonymity, which is a protected constitutional right. It's the idea that every internet packet needs to be tied back to some verified identity. We're in frog-boiling territory with this garbage.

> . It's the idea that every internet packet needs to be tied back to some verified identity

There's been multiple attempts to do this. Via KOSA and a few others lately in our Congress. PR friendly candidates like Duckworth have been trying to walk this through the system.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom has been on a steady decline since the establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913 when established banking dynasties seized control over the currency of the country. The symbolic destruction of the constitution occurred on 9/11/2001 when the modern police state went into full force.

We established the Fed (and later, the FDIC) because people were sick and tired of bankers controlling monetary policy and wiping out their life savings. How the Fed turned into the ancap Boogeyman is the real destructive force in our society.

> We established the Fed (and later, the FDIC) because people were sick and tired of bankers controlling monetary policy and wiping out their life savings

The Great Depression, the savings and loan crisis, and the GFC all happened after the establishment of the Federal Reserve. Sure, I guess you could claim that all of those would have been worse without the Fed, but reasonable minds can differ on that without being an "ancap".

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#245

Idea: let's make it so all emergency powers have to be re-authorized every week by Congress at midnight on Friday with a 90% quorum of physically-present representatives. If "emergency" action is needed because Congress is too slow, then let's make sure they are working through the process to create real law. Or if they aren't, I guess it wasn't an emergency, and there's no reason for administrative law to "fill in"…

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Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#246

- "To Address the National Emergency" A fast-moving emergency that can't be fixed by normal constitutional lawmaking processes, and must resort, exceptionally, to executive-branch emergency decrees—for expedience. Nevermind the executive order it's drawing authority from was written three years ago. It was a fast-moving emergency then, too, I suppose. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/25/2021-01... (…

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Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#247
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you know that one customer is a foreign one and one is not?

That is outlined in §7.302 The TL;DR is that the must collect name, address, email, phone number, IP address, and payment information and use that information for "verifying the identity of each foreign customer to the extent it enables the U.S. IaaS provider or foreign reseller of U.S. IaaS products to form a reasonable belief that it knows the true identity of each customer." AWS already has all of this information…

How does an email correspond to your location?

My email goes through Switzerland and I have a domain address that ends in ".de" am I a US resident, German, or Swiss?

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banking is the foundation of all so-called systems. Take away the financing and nothing gets done.

People's desires are the foundation of all so-called systems. Take away the people and nothing gets done. Or were atoms the foundation? Or thinking? Or maths? Or law? Or take away black holes and nothing gets done? Ranking interdependent systems is nonsense. Reductionism and false arguments don't help much either.

You can make people do just about anything for money. Nothing else even comes close except ideology in a distant second place.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So national security trumps democracy and freedom? What do you have left to protect when you give it all up? Might as well just elect a king and be done with it.

There's an argument to be made that we would be far better off with a benevolent monarchy than whatever this is.

Dynastic monarchies have one advantage over liberal democracies: If you want your bloodline to stay in power, you are incentivised to leave the country off better than you inherited it - if you act out too much, there's a good chance your offspring will follow you not on the throne, but on the guillotine. This immediately makes 'fuck you, I got mine' style politics unfeasable.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually remove anonymity on the internet? It seems to de-anonymize a set of IaaS customers, sure; but that's not nearly the same thing as removing anonymity completely. I've only just scanned this but it seems at first glance to mean that a foreign company can't anonymously spin up an AWS instance, that's all. Am I reading this incorrectly?

It establishes the principle, so that later it can be expanded by degrees. The trick is to oppose the principle so that it can't be expanded later.

This can’t be the only way to de anonymize an internet user today
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