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We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

federalregister.gov

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Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#211

Post by whiplash451 »

monksy wrote: post #59
kube-system wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're calling a collection and storage of your personal information as "benign"?! All major cloud services already collect this information. I filled in the bare minimum on AWS, and they've got my full name, address, phone number, email, and credit card details.

They collect biometric data (selfie) plus a copy of your drivers license? That's a big part of KYC/AML. That's a huge difference from address, email, CC number.

Your biometrics and gov ID data don't have to be collected or stored by the provider.

They can be used during the identity check and deleted right after, without ever entering the provider's infrastructure (assuming they are using a trusted 3rd party).

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#212

Post by highcountess »

greyface- wrote: post #50
perihelions wrote: post #40

- "To Address the National Emergency" A fast-moving emergency that can't be fixed by normal constitutional lawmaking processes, and must resort, exceptionally, to executive-branch emergency decrees—for expedience. Nevermind the executive order it's drawing authority from was written three years ago. It was a fast-moving emergency then, too, I suppose. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/25/2021-01... (…

Fun fact: we've got active national emergencies dating back to 1979! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...

Geez … those are some long emerging occurrences.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#213

Post by willmadden »

sschueller wrote: post #61
perihelions wrote: post #40

- "To Address the National Emergency" A fast-moving emergency that can't be fixed by normal constitutional lawmaking processes, and must resort, exceptionally, to executive-branch emergency decrees—for expedience. Nevermind the executive order it's drawing authority from was written three years ago. It was a fast-moving emergency then, too, I suppose. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/25/2021-01... (…

So national security trumps democracy and freedom? What do you have left to protect when you give it all up? Might as well just elect a king and be done with it.

There's an argument to be made that we would be far better off with a benevolent monarchy than whatever this is.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#214

Post by plasticchris »

greenavocado wrote: post #195
robocat wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systems run the show, not people. "What important truth do very few people agree with you on?": I believe that nobody is running the show. The systems we have created are more complex than we understand. I think a few people individually understand a few aspects of the different systems (we are not at the complete mercy to these systems). I also believe that we have a psycological need to know our social heirachies t…

Banking is the foundation of all so-called systems. Take away the financing and nothing gets done.

A point very eloquently made by Rick and Morty

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#215

Post by _DeadFred_ »

oaiey wrote: post #171
sschueller wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So national security trumps democracy and freedom? What do you have left to protect when you give it all up? Might as well just elect a king and be done with it.

You elect a executive branch to protect you. Sometimes that includes executive orders. And if these survive the check and balances, maybe it is for the greater good. If you do not want that, the country has to work on a functional Parlament and switch away from a presidential system.

This level of lack of understanding the basics of our system of government is why we used to have civics classes.

If someone is using infomercial level logic/details/understanding to get you riled up, step one is to step back and get a better understanding, not to grab a pitchfork and get bitter.

An post highlighting that the government is soliciting comments shows we don't actually have a king that can do whatever they want. You personally can comment on this proposal, and if you have a compelling argument, can stop it or in the future force your comment to be addressed. Remember the standard is that the Federal government's actions can not be arbitrary and capricious.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#216

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

robocat wrote: post #158
unboxingelf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why elect a king when you already have a private group of bankers running the show

Systems run the show, not people. "What important truth do very few people agree with you on?": I believe that nobody is running the show. The systems we have created are more complex than we understand. I think a few people individually understand a few aspects of the different systems (we are not at the complete mercy to these systems). I also believe that we have a psycological need to know our social heirachies t…

I agree with this. I this misunderstanding is the root cause of, well a lot of shit, but particularly the increase in belief in conspiracy theories by members of the public. Most people lack a conceptual understanding of emergent behavior in complex systems, and instead rely on linear narrativization to understand the world (which by the way is not an insult to the public's intelligence, it's just the way our brains work unless you make a concerted effort to step outside of that default). And if you aren't considering multivariate, emergent behavior as a possible explanation for unpredictable and inscrutable world events, the next and really only reasonable explanation is intricate conspiracies by powerful agents.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#217

Post by whiplash451 »

A number of threads seem to assume that KYC (or identity check) implies that your biometrics or gov ID data is collected/stored by the provider, but it does not have to be.

The identity check is typically done by a trusted 3rd party that can delete the data right after the identity check (and can be required to do so).

So you basically end up guaranteeing that the name, address and D.O.B that you provided to the IaaS provider is actually correct, nothing more and nothing less.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#218

Post by monksy »

whiplash451 wrote: post #211
monksy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They collect biometric data (selfie) plus a copy of your drivers license? That's a big part of KYC/AML. That's a huge difference from address, email, CC number.

Your biometrics and gov ID data don't have to be collected or stored by the provider. They can be used during the identity check and deleted right after, without ever entering the provider's infrastructure (assuming they are using a trusted 3rd party).

> They can be used during the identity check and deleted right after, without ever entering the provider's infrastructure

You trust them to delete it right after? What about the human reviewers in other countries that are working at home taking pictures of their laptops with your id on it?

> trusted 3rd party

You trust that 3rd party's intent and word? It's pretty weird to bring another company to steal your data and details.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#219

Post by ryanisnan »

always2slow wrote: post #145
ryanisnan wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your premise that KYC enables governments to violate the 4th amendment, but in general, for certain industries this is just generally a really good idea. Banking is the first industry where I encountered KYC, and it strikes me as being obviously good there. Isn't effectively the majority of what the Snowden leaks covered essentially violating the 4th amendment?

>Banking is the first industry where I encountered KYC, and it strikes me as being obviously good there. This is not obvious to me as my experience has been largely negative post-KYC/9-11 vs pre-KYC/9-11. I am a legal law abiding citizen [and voter!] and it's just added extra hassle on various occasions and then the background anxiety of knowing an institution with crappy security track records hold a photocopy of my…

I am familiar with KYC from a banker's perspective (at least that of a close relative who was a bank manager).

KYC helped them by deny-listing abusive clients between branches, or by allowing the bank to develop heuristics for things like allowing customers to bypass cheque clearing times.

From an end-user perspective, I've had no hangups personally but I do share your grievances about yet-another-shoddy institution holding a photocopy of my ID. My bank truncates passwords when setting them, and when logging in, without telling the user. It boggles the mind.

Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services

#220

Post by chmod600 »

Idea: let's make it so all emergency powers have to be re-authorized every week by Congress at midnight on Friday with a 90% quorum of physically-present representatives.

If "emergency" action is needed because Congress is too slow, then let's make sure they are working through the process to create real law. Or if they aren't, I guess it wasn't an emergency, and there's no reason for administrative law to "fill in" using a non-democratic process.

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