Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

blog.jim-nielsen.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 466 posts

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#381

Post by keybored »

dcow wrote: post #334
keybored wrote: post #332

I don’t buy it at all. Effective learning[1] is about effortful recall. Things that you just read have a transient learning effect. But the common way of cramming is done through this transient means because it is a simple strategy for unstructured/otherwise busy students and it works until the exam (but not much after). And you are … maybe in the sense that it always remains in your unconscious. But what use is that…

I can usually tell which programmers read man pages (generally RTFM) and which don’t. And I still `man ln` more frequently than I’d like to admit to make sure I get the argument order correct. > Consider a socialist who reads 500 liberal think tank pieces. He’s more likely to either be as socialist by the end or more (double-down effect). Rhetorically assuming this is truth, he’s also a socialist who has a better gra…

> Rhetorically assuming this is truth, he’s also a socialist who has a better grasp on the liberal perspective. He’s a different socialist than his comrade who’s never bothered to explore liberal writing.

You read Emerson less narrowly than I did. And on a second read I see that I misremembered it (it wasn’t about how you are what you read).

> > I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.

My paragraph was more addressed to this:

> It’s a good reminder to be mindful of my content diet — you are what you read, even if you don’t always remember it.

This mirror relationship is not the case. You are not what you read. You are affected by it but you don’t become more like it.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#382

Post by rramadass »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #357
rramadass wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The implicit assumption here is that more is better, No, that is the assumption that you are making and not what i meant. It is an undeniable fact that today we have a far far greater amount of Scientific and Technological Knowledge (sheer Data without making any value judgements) than in any time in the past Human history. Our Society's dependence on Science/Technology has also increased exponentially since the be…

> It is an undeniable fact that today we have a far far greater amount of Scientific and Technological Knowledge I don't dispute it. What I dispute is the implication I believe your proposing, which is "there is more knowledge, and therefore we need to read broadly and not focus as much on deep understanding". If that is not what you mean, please correct me since I don't see what other implication you mean. > The uti…

> which is "there is more knowledge, and therefore we need to read broadly and not focus as much on deep understanding". If that is not what you mean, please correct me since I don't see what other implication you mean.

I did not say "not focus as much on deep understanding". I am only talking about exposure to all sorts of concepts/ideas. When the time for application of knowledge comes, depth will be achieved as a matter of course since it becomes a prerequisite. Reading broadly and widely for knowledge (so to say to get a map of the terrain) is different from reading deeply for a specific objective/need and has to be cultivated consciously.

> But to apply this knowledge later you need to have remembered about it, and writing notes (which is where this discussion started) absolutely helps with this. I'm arguing for writing down the concepts that you found important or interesting at the time, not a synopsis of each subchapter.

I think maybe you are confusing my comments with somebody else's and meant this as a reply to somebody else? I have not mentioned note-taking in any of my comments in this thread.

However, In past HN threads to do with note-taking, i do argue for the benefits of this discipline but in the context of this thread i am only arguing for "Reading broadly and widely" (with/without note-taking).

> But reading widely only makes a difference to the degree that you do assimilate the content and that it changes you.

No, mere exposure and fuzzy understanding is many a times good enough. Assimilation can be superficial or in-depth as needs dictate. What Reading widely/broadly enables is to see interconnections/interplay between various subjects the very existence of which you might have been unaware of earlier. This is particularly true in today's times where there is so much knowledge that it is impossible to go deep into everything.

> Except we are not talking about doing scientific research (where I agree getting more knowledge is the whole point). We're talking about reading other people's work to get something out of it. And, especially, in this context there is a trade-off between "just in case" knowledge and "just in time" knowledge.

I was using the example of "Scientific Research" since it is the classic textbook exemplar of knowledge before utility. But the same idea is also applicable to reading various subjects. It is also the case that "just in case" knowledge will generally always trump "just in time" knowledge. As an example, you can write software without knowing anything about predicate logic/formal methods. There is no "just in time" to acquire this knowledge unless you happen to work on projects where they are needed (a very small percentage). But if you were to study this "just in case" and even if you don't use it rigorously the very act of knowing it will allow you think about program construction in a whole new light which will give you superior insight and increase your effectiveness/productivity immeasurably.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#383

Post by Eisenstein »

pixl97 wrote: post #291
madaxe_again wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got into the habit of saying “yes” to pretty much anything. It has taken me on some wild rides indeed, and I am richer in spirit for it. It forged the bond between my wife and me - “shall we do a road trip across Eurasia?”, she idly asked, expecting at the very most a “maybe” - instead I grasped that nettle and applied for visas that day. Six weeks of utterly madcap adventure ensued. Since, I’ve found myself i…

Isn't this also just a form of survivorship bias? You wouldn't be posting this from prison for example. Maybe at the end of the day simple platitudes only work for the lucky.

It also requires a lack of commitments and a modest amount of disposable income.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#384

Post by Hates_ »

8bitme wrote: post #290

> the goal of a book isn’t to get to the last page, it’s to expand your thinking. I would apply this to fiction books too. Some people consider reading fiction books a waste of time. But fiction books too can expand your mind by exploring ideas that may not be possible in non-fiction books or exploring the same ideas but in a way that non-fiction books cannot achieve easily or at all.

The way I've heard it phrased is "Non-fiction teaches us about the world, fiction teaches us about ourselves."

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#385

Post by socksy »

kieckerjan wrote: post #182

A corollary of this idea that also the bad stuff that you read leaves a trace, and not necessarily a good trace. To continue the food metaphor: like junk food there is junk reading and while it may satisfy some need it is all informational empty calories and transfats. Which brings up a subject I pondered many times: to go on an information diet. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

I guess one start might be to avoid the comments section on HN ;)

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#386

Post by noqc »

y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

I have tried very hard not to realize this, to avoid making the mistake that you have.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#387

Post by somenameforme »

fransje26 wrote: post #343
somenameforme wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claims in the first link, at least, should set off your BS detector. The colors they claim the group could trivially identify are very near identical in terms of 3d distance. By contrast, the colors they claim they could not determine the difference between are extremely far in 3d distance. It's objectively illogical. A quick search turns up that the claims are indeed false, and were fabricated by the BBC for a d…

I did not do a full literature study of the claims of the article, as that was meant as an illustration of the point, and it was the first relevant link that popped up. Whatever the alleged fabrications of the BBC might have been or not been for the Himba experiments, similar observations have been made for other groups as well, from Amazonian tribes, to population groups in Papua New Guinea, to Aborigines in Austral…

I do not think the actual experiments demonstrate this. The experiment the BBC demoed probably would, but it was fabricated. The actual experiments just demonstrate a pretty obvious aspect of learning. If you tell somebody who doesn't play chess all the names of the pieces, and ask him to tell you which is the rook, he's going to be slower and less accurate at it than somebody who plays chess. But there's not some huge epiphany like you can show him a collection of 5 bishops, 1 rook, and him be unable to tell which is different. It's no different with colors, or any new term.

I have personal experience with this, learning Russian. They don't have just blue, but rather a term for dark blue and one for light blue. It's hardly some eye opening thing - it's basically sky blue vs ocean blue. It's obvious and easy, but obviously I will always be slower than a native on a quiz of which is which for reasons that have nothing to do with the colors. Vice versa, compare our speeds in English with 'sky blue' vs 'ocean blue' and I'd be back to winning.

A common trend in the social sciences is creating experiments that aren't designed to challenge one's hypothesis, but confirm it. The publication bias against negative results is probably necessary, but also turning a lot of soft science into a facade.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#388

Post by gffrd »

noqc wrote: post #386
y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

I have tried very hard not to realize this, to avoid making the mistake that you have.

What is the mistake that parent has made?

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#389

Post by Symmetry »

teekert wrote: post #245
daniel_reetz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. The experiences that changed and benefited me most were least predictable. As a result, I try to manage experiences less, and choose the unknown more. But in the spirit of what you've said, I try to avoid doing dumb, damaging, or boring things twice.

If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you will learn the things you never knew you never knew.

Overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#390

Post by aj_g »

I've saved a link to more or less every thought-provoking article I've read since the last 12 years (first in Evernote, and now Obsidian). I have two notes, one "links", the other "article notes", that's just a bare minimum note-taking system for stuff I read on the web. Both notes are huge, and undoubtedly contain many tidbits of advice, perception shifting ideas, or "subjectivity merges" (https://sashachapin.substack.com/p/books-are-subjectivity-me...).

One of my project ideas now that has been building in my mind is, 12 years on, to go back and re-read and re-evaluate many of these links, and do a short write-up on how I've been influence by this article or any explicit choices that I've made in my life that could likely be attributed to it. I think this would be fascinating from a psychological/neurological POV but also a really cool chance to reflect on how I've changed/grown as a person.

Post reply on HN