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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#921

Post by alcoholic_byte »

troupo wrote: post #847
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Should other countries do the same with US companies? US government regularly (ab)uses FISA to get data on foreign nationals: https://transparency.meta.com/reports/government-data-reques... > Parallel to this we need a federal national data privacy law that protects us but also cracks down on the huge industry of data brokers selling Americans’ data to anyone that has cash. And also dismantle the law where the US can…

It is called a fortified democracy. And absolute democracy like the Weimarer Republik is a dangerous thing. All modern democracies are fortified these days. And it is good that they are. And yes if the US is caught with the hand in the cookie jar the nation in question is not happy, but there is a difference: Spying is passive and not influencing the democratic process of the nation or disrupting it. The concern with Tiktok is that it is active, trying to disrupt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T_Lu1S0sII

Also, unlike the Bytedance and the Chinese Government, US companies do not run intelligence operations. They are in it solely for the money, otherwise the NSA wouldn't have had to snoop on Google in 2013(?).

and this point

> And also dismantle the law where the US can request any data on any person, even abroad, if the company is US-based

I find questionable. It is too blanketed. There are international criminals afoot after all. Red Letters do have their purpose as do international treaties for law enforcement to cooperate across borders in a bespoke manner in accordance with their and international laws.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#922

Post by troq13 »

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

>A spin to a US company is not enough. It needs to cease operating in the US because there’s no surety that even with a spin data and sharing won’t get back to ByteDance China.

At this level of paranoia you may as well ban Facebook and other social media as there is no guarantee their data is not getting intercepted by China.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#923

Post by consumer451 »

inemesitaffia wrote: post #811
consumer451 wrote: post #777

I happen to personally agree with the general concept of making the CCP divest from the leading social media platform in the USA. I also wonder if the KSA should be forced to divest from X/Twitter. Prior to owning part of X/Twitter, they did this [0], which led to to the worst of what one could imagine. What is happening now? But my main question is, are there any other examples of forced divestiture, aside from Fire…

I have reason to believe they have owned part of Twitter just post Arab spring and now own less not more. It definitely didn't happen in 2022. Did this infiltration happen before they owned part of Twitter?

> Did this infiltration happen before they owned part of Twitter?

Yes, absolutely, if we all agree upon the direction of the arrow of time.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#924

Post by derelicta »

alcoholic_byte wrote: post #917
derelicta wrote: post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CIA and FBI propaganda campaigns on US and Europe's population are however acceptable somehow.

Let's be critical here: We should differenciate between spying(passive) and misinformation/manipulation(active) Mentioning propaganda you choose the latter. Pray tell what are those campaigns you talk about? If you are posing this question you must have at least some in mind and ready at hand to share.

Remember all those "independant" experts that were calling for the invasion of Irak because of those WMD?

Or all those action movies relying on leased military equipments under the condition they will never portray the US military in a bad manner?

Or Operation Mockingbird during the cold war?

Those are all examples of US propaganda.

There is much I left aside ofc, including anything related to the support of the ongoing "military operation" against the palestinian people.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#925

Post by notTooFarGone »

fallingfrog wrote: post #820
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

So how are you so sure that TikTok doesn't sell the data to the US anyway?

This way the same thing happens and china did also make some money. I don't see the argument that china having your data is somehow better than your government.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#926

Post by ranguna »

mapasj wrote: post #919
squigz wrote: post #908

Can someone convince me that, as a Canadian, China poses a greater threat to me, my country, or global security, than the US does? Because I have a hard time buying into the "China's the big bad" narrative when America does everything they do.

For starters, I don’t think America will hold Canadians hostage to be used as bargaining chips, like China did with the two Michaels.

I wish that I had more exact knowledge and sources at hand to counter your example, but I don't. Not because they don't exist, but because at the moment the only source I can get with relative ease are these YouTube videos:

https://youtu.be/R5au74auD_k

https://youtu.be/jUGILxwkpVc

And the channel itself is pretty great.

So I do apologise for not getting a list of factual examples supporting the OP's statement, but your argument was not barely enough to make me disagree with the OP. On the contrary, I do agree with the OP very much.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#927

Post by troq13 »

_r4nc wrote: post #654
danielhep wrote: post #542

The way I see this is that democracy is extremely susceptible to tools that can change public opinion en masse. This of course applies to Western social media as much as TikTok, and I'd love to see regulation around all social media algorithms to ensure they're unbiased. I see this as a good start to counter a real threat, which is China's ability to influence US elections through TikTok.

> I'd love to see regulation around all social media algorithms to ensure they're unbiased. The bias is a feature. They just don't like the fact that they can't control the bias on TikTok so it spews Chinese propaganda instead of Western propaganda.

Does it spew Chinese propaganda though? Have you even used TikTok?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#928

Post by eganist »

throwaway4good wrote: post #866
noobermin wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the use of the word "enemy" is far too strong, it sounds like we are at war with them while they somehow supply half of our goods at prices we've grown accustomed to. "Adversary" is a weaker word that is more apt (which you use later), where the US is not on the friendliest terms with China but isn't in an outright war with them. Words matter, at the very least to avoid starting nationalistic flamewars…

The US has an official list of enemies and that includes China. I believe the list was introduced under Trump and is determined by the sitting president: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-A/part-7/subp...

Others are calling this out but they're not able to state why:

They're listed as adversaries and not enemies because aiding an enemy country suddenly unlocks a litany of other crimes.

Enemy is very specifically defined: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/2204

Adversary is very specifically defined: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-A/part-7/subp...

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#929

Post by palata »

alcoholic_byte wrote: post #915
throwaway_jeff wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is with the bill being legal. For example, US citizens are free to listen to chinese radio stations, or chinese TV channels, read chinese books. Why the government needs to restrict what US citizens have access to in this specific case?

Your thoughts leave out one thing: Radio and newspapers(including internet articles here in general) are a one way street. With Tiktok, you not only get access to the users device via the app, but it is also a two way street. Tiktok gets to choose what it feeds you. And what you describe is also true in a lot of countries(I can choose my medium). However, with newspapers, radio and television what you feed the popula…

All very good points! Which apply to all social networks, not only TikTok. The difference with TikTok being that the US do not have control over it, and they are not used to that.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#930

Post by tjarrett »

miroljub wrote: post #903
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Now, let's have other countries doing the same to Meta, Google, Microsoft and the likes. They all collect the data and send them to a foreign country (USA). They also use their algorithms to manipulate public meaning and to censor opposite opinions. Oh, and a US company spaying foreign citizens in not only legal in the USA, but also required.

Frankly... other countries should probably consider this IF they have an adversarial relationship with the US.

And they already do -- neither China nor Russia allow Meta services in their countries. Nor do they allow most of Google's services.

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