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You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

blog.jim-nielsen.com

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Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#261

Post by rramadass »

vijucat wrote: post #227

This is why I don't read. Try writing a poem. Mine were so obviously regurgitations of past material consumed that I realized that to output anything original, I had to develop an individuality by starving the creative neurons, so to speak. Of course, this is only restricted to fields where one would like to produce novel output. You're free to read academic papers, etc; But if you want to write original sci-fi, star…

No, You have quite the wrong idea!

Novelty is not born in a vacuum devoid of input. It comes from internalizing/assimilating a whole lot of concepts/ideas only after which can you manifest new things from it.

In Martial Arts (also applicable to other fields) there is a saying;

In the beginning the student knows nothing and hence can move freely but not effectively; as he starts learning he is confused/all-mixed-up and cannot move freely nor effectively; but finally when he masters the movement, he has internalized it and hence can move freely and effectively.

In philosophy too a "Master of Wisdom" is said to revert to "the original child-like state" (but with the knowledge of the world in hand).

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#262

Post by gizmo »

keiferski wrote: post #168
y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

This is pretty trite if you stop to think about it. “Everything in your life that you experience has an effect on your experience of life.” We all exist in the world, not apart from it, and no amount of exclusion or creation of “sterile spaces” will change that.

Expressions like "eat your vegetables" and "life is short" are also trite. But the purpose of folk wisdom isn't to shock and awe with fresh insights. The purpose is to remind people of what they already know to be true. That way we steer our behavior more towards the kind of life we want to live.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#263

Post by somenameforme »

fransje26 wrote: post #230
affgrff2 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thought experiment is deeply flawed as it assumes that what you propose is possible and the outcome would be as you suggest. I am not convinced that people can bootstrap themselves like this and that language itself does not contain views, values and perspectives.

> that language itself does not contain views, values and perspectives. Language itself does, in fact, very much contain views, values and perspectives. As an example, there are population groups that do not have a word for the color blue, and that cannot, in consequence, distinguish between green and blue objects. [0] [1] And that's an example that has been noticed throughout the world. [0] https://www.sciencealert.…

The claims in the first link, at least, should set off your BS detector. The colors they claim the group could trivially identify are very near identical in terms of 3d distance. By contrast, the colors they claim they could not determine the difference between are extremely far in 3d distance. It's objectively illogical. A quick search turns up that the claims are indeed false, and were fabricated by the BBC for a documentary. Here's [1] an email chain involving various researchers that worked on these experiments. The conclusion is that:

---

"The experiment shown in the documentary was a dramatization; the genuine color experiments done with the Himba, some years before, used a different sort of stimuli and a different experimental method; the stimuli shown in the documentary were modeled on those used by Paul Kay and others in experiments on other groups; but in all of the relevant experiments, the dependent measure was reaction time (in finding a matching color or an oddball color), not success or failure.

The BBC's presentation of the mocked-up experiment — purporting to show that the Himba are completely unable to distinguish blue and green shades that seem quite different to us, but can easily distinguish shades of green that seem identical to us — was apparently a journalistic fabrication, created by the documentary's editors after the fact, and was never asserted by the researchers themselves, much less demonstrated experimentally."

---

[1] - https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=18237

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#264

Post by 7thaccount »

y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

Agreed. It is a profound realization once you grasp it. There are genetic factors and then the overall sum of your experiences. What you read, what you watch, what you listen to on the radio, who you hang out with, what you do for a living, what organizations you belong to, what family life was like as a kid...etc. It all adds up in little ways. I try to keep this in mind when raising kids.

In hindsight, my father and mother-in-law listening to Rush Limbaugh everyday was probably not very good for them. It is a small sample size, but I can remember as a kid how negative and angry the program was and how it certainly didn't put my father into a good mood and how it was kind of like a mind virus. I try to be more aware of advertising and propaganda, but it isn't easy. You have to be vigilant as even the news will use clips out of context. I'm not just saying conservatives are guilty of this either, but am using an example from personal experience.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#265

Post by vasco »

robertlagrant wrote: post #258
nikkwong wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of responded to this idea in another comment, but again. How can you take ‘personal credit’ (as if you could have acted otherwise) for choosing to change your behavior? Isn’t that an idea that also just appears in consciousness that is, for inexplicable reasons, more compelling than other ideas at the time so that is the choice that your brain reasons to follow?

> an idea that also just appears in consciousness that is, for inexplicable reasons, more compelling than other ideas at the time so that is the choice that your brain reasons to follow This seems to be an idiosyncratic definition of free will.

On the other hand, I think it's simplistic to equate picking options from a mental list as "free will". I think the point you are replying to is valid because if there's free will, it's not just "choosing from a list". The list itself (the options you present yourself) has way more impact on your behavior than what you choose, even. So the matter of the question is, do you have free will in forming a list.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#266

Post by beltsazar »

y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

> you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life

That's only the mental aspect. Physically, you are also what you eat and how often you exercise.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#267

Post by nathias »

y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

this isn't really the same

you read something impactful that changes the way you think, your mind will stay changed even if you don't remember the actual reasons or point made, but advertisements, news, etc. will not change the way you think, they are just noise

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#268

Post by rramadass »

hscontinuity wrote: post #131

This is going to come off as esoteric or metaphysically based. However, that is not my intention. I base the understanding of simple and/or complex ideas/theories on context alone. Meaning, much can be extrapolated if you simply philosophize the workings of a given system rather than detailing how the system is actually deployed/executing. Example - if all matter we interact with in our world (and manipulate) is esse…

You might find the "Samkhya" school of Hindu Philosophy relevant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samkhya

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#269

Post by leke »

y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

> at one point in your life it was processed by your brain

I'm pretty sure my ADD brain fails to do that on a regular basis.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#270

Post by ben_w »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #185
ben_w wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t choose what you will think about? How do you get through the day? Are you just frequently blindsided by random non-sequiturs that derail you for hours? My tongue-in-cheek answer here is: Correct, badly, and it looks like the obsessive-compulsive desire to check social media and/or the news.

Choose to stop then? I mean social media that is - but seriously. Choose to say, “I’m not driven by my pleasure sensors” and do something hard for the sake of doing it - not for glory, not for nothing. Nihilism and predestination lead to some orettt dark places. Sometimes I feel like a lot of the folks I hear advocating against free will (which is really a stance against choice and even our own consciousness at its c…

> Choose to stop then?

"""Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behaviour that produces natural reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences. Repetitive drug use often alters brain function in ways that perpetuate craving, and weakens (but does not completely negate) self-control.[1] This phenomenon – drugs reshaping brain function – has led to an understanding of addiction as a brain disorder with a complex variety of psychosocial as well as neurobiological (and thus involuntary)[a] factors that are implicated in addiction's development.[2][3][4] Classic signs of addiction include compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, preoccupation with substances or behavior, and continued use despite negative consequences. Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward),[5][6] coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).[3][7]""" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

I block some social media entirely, and I have to block rather than simply "choose to stop", due to the "compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli" and habituation to patterns "characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward)".

I can easily recognise the long term deleterious effects social media, especially when it comes to just being horizontal in bed, either needing to go to sleep or to get up in the morning, and wanting to open up a browser on my phone to check for replies rather than either of those.

> which is really a stance against choice and even our own consciousness at its core

The me of the id is not the same as the me of the ego, or the superego.

The me of tomorrow can curse the expanding waistline caused by the cake eaten by the me of today.

There is only one thing any of us can choose to do in any given moment while remaining true to ourselves; but which of the selves is truly "our"?

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