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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#911

Post by temporarely »

temporarely wrote: post #322
Aloisius wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law doesn't ban them from having Chinese owners. It bans American companies from providing services that distribute, maintain or update any sufficiently popular apps substantially owned or controlled by foreign adversaries. TikTok could host APKs from CCP headquarters if they want to.

Is this just a distribution ban or will US actually block the app at net/protocol? I have never used the thingie but this ban business motivated me to download it the other day.

(to the respondents to my op): thanks!

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#912

Post by lrvick »

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

> A spin to a US company is not enough. It needs to cease operating in the US because there’s no surety that even with a spin data and sharing won’t get back to ByteDance China.

Can we apply this logic to Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc?

I personally only support a ban of TikTok if we apply the logic universally. Such services are weapons, and weapons are sure to be weaponized.

All centrally mass collected, plaintext or effectively plaintext data will sooner or later be co-opted by state actors.

Best to ban the practice of bulk plaintext data storage entirely unless it can all be E2EE and anonymozed to the point of being useless to the companies storing it.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#913

Post by gigatexal »

lrvick wrote: post #912
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

> A spin to a US company is not enough. It needs to cease operating in the US because there’s no surety that even with a spin data and sharing won’t get back to ByteDance China. Can we apply this logic to Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc? I personally only support a ban of TikTok if we apply the logic universally. Such services are weapons, and weapons are sure to be weaponized. All centrally mass collected, plaintext…

> Can we apply this logic to Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc? I personally only support a ban of TikTok if we apply the logic universally. Such services are weapons, and weapons are sure to be weaponized. All centrally mass collected, plaintext or effectively plaintext data will sooner or later be co-opted by state actors. Best to ban the practice of bulk plaintext data storage entirely unless it can all be E2EE and anonymozed to the point of being useless to the companies storing it.

We can ostensibly anyway regulate the American social media companies whereas the Chinese ones are a black box even though they might operate here under an American entity. That’s why we are here. They claimed they didn’t share data but they do. And that’s how the whole algorithm and value works

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#914

Post by gigatexal »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #835
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Can someone please explain to me what the security threat is? I still haven't understood it. If it's that China will know more about Americans through data ingestion, they can already do that. Americans willingly upload every little bit of their lives to YouTube, Twitch, and tons of other platforms. Not to mention that Temu is the most downloaded shopping app in the US. And what kind of attack can TikTok information…

That a foreign nation with aims not aligned with the US has the dominant social network with the CAPABILITY to use this influence to influence the US, collect data, shape the minds of youths and future voters etc etc. that is enough for me.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#915

Post by alcoholic_byte »

throwaway_jeff wrote: post #861
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

The problem is with the bill being legal. For example, US citizens are free to listen to chinese radio stations, or chinese TV channels, read chinese books. Why the government needs to restrict what US citizens have access to in this specific case?

Your thoughts leave out one thing:

Radio and newspapers(including internet articles here in general) are a one way street. With Tiktok, you not only get access to the users device via the app, but it is also a two way street. Tiktok gets to choose what it feeds you.

And what you describe is also true in a lot of countries(I can choose my medium). However, with newspapers, radio and television what you feed the population is readily visible to anyone. I can turn on the telly to see what is being streamed. This is not the case with an app. Unless the government watches you 24/7 and I doubt that. The costs are prohibitive. The thing that does exist is metadata. If I were to visit terrorist.com or bombmanual.org.uk I would make a list. But watching TikTok all that is being seen is me communicating with content-servers(here the subject that needs to be watched also changes from the user(me) to the proprietor(the company)) from them and protocolling the content of everything watched, unless you break encryption at scale, and monitor everyone is also prohibitive. Not to mention analysis of the content. So Tiktok is the perfect vehicle for subversion of a foreign nation if I want to play for time.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#916

Post by scotty79 »

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Why trade with enemy at all? Why do money transfers? Mutual investments? Why let enemy people live in your country?

Every step you do to isolate yourself from your enemy makes them even more your enemy.

At the end of this process is war. Completely unsurprising. Pretty much inevitable.

Alternatively you could accept that you are loosing competition in some fields without turning it into mortal conflict.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#917

Post by alcoholic_byte »

derelicta wrote: post #877
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

CIA and FBI propaganda campaigns on US and Europe's population are however acceptable somehow.

Let's be critical here: We should differenciate between spying(passive) and misinformation/manipulation(active)

Mentioning propaganda you choose the latter.

Pray tell what are those campaigns you talk about? If you are posing this question you must have at least some in mind and ready at hand to share.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#918

Post by alcoholic_byte »

throwaway4good wrote: post #864
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

This is the idea of the "clean network" originally brought forward by Trump. Basically all tech is clean and ok if comes from the good guys (the US and allies) and unclean if it comes from the bad guys (China, Russia ...). IMHO a sad state of affairs. We would be at a healthier and less hypocritical place if our tech was secure by design, and suppliers and platforms were subject to open objective criteria and rule of…

Well a lot of agencies do that out of the box because secure by design is not believed. Trust but verify. You see that when intelligence agents talk about cooperation between partners. So in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't really change things.

The one thing it would change though is that it would make the life a bit harder for cyber criminals(think downgrading tls connections).

And the criteria you talked about, they are open. Called capitalism, and regulations those companies operate under. Along the way that abomination of surveillance capitalism was born though.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#919

Post by mapasj »

squigz wrote: post #908

Can someone convince me that, as a Canadian, China poses a greater threat to me, my country, or global security, than the US does? Because I have a hard time buying into the "China's the big bad" narrative when America does everything they do.

For starters, I don’t think America will hold Canadians hostage to be used as bargaining chips, like China did with the two Michaels.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#920

Post by [deleted] »

noobermin wrote: post #842
gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

To be honest, the use of the word "enemy" is far too strong, it sounds like we are at war with them while they somehow supply half of our goods at prices we've grown accustomed to. "Adversary" is a weaker word that is more apt (which you use later), where the US is not on the friendliest terms with China but isn't in an outright war with them. Words matter, at the very least to avoid starting nationalistic flamewars…

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