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The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

theguardian.com

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Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#281

Post by piloto_ciego »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #236
greenie_beans wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most curious to learn more about the civil war.

There are a number of famous english speaking authors that have done pretty good work around it. On non fiction you have "The spanish civil war" by Thomas Hugh. On the fiction side you have "For whom the bell tolls" by Ernst hemingway and "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell

Man, something about Spain is truly magical. For you I imagine it’s different since you grew up there (I get it, I’m from Alaska and it’s nice but it’s not magical like tourists see it), but for me, I remember reading Homage to Catalonia as a kid and thinking “I have to go to Spain one day” then later in life when I went, I backpacked through El País Vasco (and the rest of northern Spain) and just fell in love with that country.

If I can get a remote job, my wife and I are strongly considering how we could move there. Spain is the most fascinating place I’ve ever been and the place just… feels right? I don’t know how to describe it. It’s the only place I’ve ever felt like I fit in. Eskerrik Asko / Gracias for taking me back to a series of Camino sense memories.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#282

Post by getwiththeprog »

anigbrowl wrote: post #254
astrange wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unclear why hearing that someone else is richer than you is supposed to be cool, regardless of if they're capitalist coded or cashier coded.

Because it suggests non-capitalist business models can be more successful than generally imagined.

Co-ops are a capitalist business model.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#283

Post by astrange »

getwiththeprog wrote: post #282
anigbrowl wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it suggests non-capitalist business models can be more successful than generally imagined.

Co-ops are a capitalist business model.

If you can't sell your shares in a company, I think it has a good argument for not being capitalist, even though you produce market goods.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#284

Post by klysm »

reaperman wrote: post #257
TeMPOraL wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I named the department wrong, but my point is, back before PowerPoint, in the era of more analog presentations, large companies had a separate group of people you would ask to prepare charts and graphics for your presentation. Nowadays, you have to do it yourself. My point is that all of us are constantly distracted by random, intermittent tasks outside our specializations, which previously were done by dedicat…

A few corporations still have a separate department dedicated entirely to generating things like PowerPoints. McKinsey for example. The consultants are good at creating PowerPoints if they need to, but they can just outline it or flesh it out as much as they like and toss it over the fence to the "PowerPoint department" which will complete it overnight based on the instructions/outline/information/draft sent in by th…

Yeah but slide shows are a core competency for McKinsey.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#285

Post by mgaunard »

InitialLastName wrote: post #226
mgaunard wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, people would rather be employees paid in cash whose amount is agreed ahead of time than partners where they're paid depending on the company's profits.

Doesn't that depend on how profitable the company usually is? I know plenty of people in the finance world who, if paid only their salary, would be searching for a different job.

The upside is larger, but is longer-term and uncertain.

You don't get the offer in the first place if it is certain.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#286

Post by Arkhaine_kupo »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #281
Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of famous english speaking authors that have done pretty good work around it. On non fiction you have "The spanish civil war" by Thomas Hugh. On the fiction side you have "For whom the bell tolls" by Ernst hemingway and "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell

Man, something about Spain is truly magical. For you I imagine it’s different since you grew up there (I get it, I’m from Alaska and it’s nice but it’s not magical like tourists see it), but for me, I remember reading Homage to Catalonia as a kid and thinking “I have to go to Spain one day” then later in life when I went, I backpacked through El País Vasco (and the rest of northern Spain) and just fell in love with t…

Funny how the world works, I must have spent most of my middle school doing book reports on the Inuit and other Native american and First Nation tribes up north. We had to read Island of the Blue Dolphins in 5th grade and I had a big "Eskimo" phase. (I know the name is no longer in use much, but it shows my age)

Well I have been out of Spain for over a decade, so now when I go back I feel a bit like a tourist and I think it gets lovelier every year. If you ever make it back, either through work or for another trip I am sure you will have a brilliant time once again.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#287

Post by lentil_soup »

greenie_beans wrote: post #223
Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any part you would be interested in particularly? I just grew up there, so most of it was less books and more just personal experience. But there are no few resources, books, shows or documentaries about the area.

most curious to learn more about the civil war.

Ghosts of Spain by Giles Tremlett is usually well regarded, although I have not read it

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#288

Post by randomcarbloke »

usrusr wrote: post #11

It's an amazing success story (even if surely not without any bad spots), it makes me happy just knowing that it exists. But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is. If that nationalism also had something like an independent state as a default outlet, the balance between cohesion and corruption creep might shift just enoug…

it is partially successful because it overcame one of the difficulties with scaling cooperatives, namely being selective with membership - it outsources so much to avoid dilution through membership it might aswell be a financial trust rather than anything roughly resembling a traditional cooperative.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#289

Post by fransje26 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #96
JTbane wrote: post #18

C-suite salaries are so high in America I'm wondering if these sort of co-ops could be more competitive on that cost saving alone.

It’s really the non-employee shareholders that take the value, so instead of comparing with CEO and management, you should instead be asking: “How to transfer ownership of all publicly traded shares such that they are owned solely by the employees and not non-employee investors” CEOs and management are simply there to prevent the above from happening, which is why they are paid by the board so much. The boards are th…

> not non-employee investors

I must be thick, but I fail to understand how shareholders are "investors" of a publicly traded company? Yes, at some point, the company went to the market, and large sums of cash were exchanged for company shares, with the promise of a future return of part of the profit on that share. So yes, that moment could be seen as an investment.

But from that point onward, holding a share of a traded company has nothing to do with investment. Share holders are exchanging shares on the stock market, but at no point is any of that money going back to the companies they are trading shares of. They are just exchanging the "profit sharing promise" among each other, with no positive financial impact on the companies whatsoever. Quite the contrary, as they eat up a huge quantity of the available net profit, that could have been reinvested in the companies themselves.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#290

Post by rybosworld »

greenie_beans wrote: post #255
rybosworld wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"being a contrarian doesn't mean you're right" - oh the irony You never had an argument beyond "I'm right and you're wrong" lmao. I asked you to respond to specific questions like: Explaining how a privately owned, for-profit org (a coop) can exist in a socialist world. You ignored it and have now devolved to emotional responses only.

i'm not responding to those comments because you clearly aren't informed about the definition of socialism, particularly the nuances and the debates that leftists have about this definition all of the time. nor do you understand what a cooperative is. it's not worth my time to go tit for tat in a debate if we're not operating on the same knowledge, and you're not willing to learn. you are just somebody who argues on…

You don't understand what socialism and coops are, nor do you understand the nuances and debates that leftists have.

See how easy it is to make assertions?

> you are just somebody who argues on the internet

Says, the guy arguing on the internet lol.

> a natural contrarian who thinks they are right about everything, while being totally wrong

Says the natural contrarian who thinks they are right about everything, while being totally wrong!

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