Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#851

Post by b-side » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:51 AM UTC

collegeburner wrote: post #433

ThinkBeat wrote: post #372

I hope this will show the severity of threats countries face from social media and that things are no longer business as usual. Every European country /and/or EU/ECC as a block, as well as every other nation or block, should follow this up as soon as permitted to have all social media apps operated by a foreign country be subject to the same legislation. TikTok will have to sel to the US, Netherlands, France, Germany…

No, small states do not have the same rights as large ones. You may disagree with this but I don't see any point in pretending it's untrue. Large countries have more sway and matter more to everyone, including but not limited to operators of social platforms. Losing half your userbase hurts much more than losing a hundredth. I also doubt that the U.S. would force a sale of a social app based in the Netherlands, Franc…

I think you are conflating "incomebase" and userbase. There are no "hard facts" on this but everyone seems to agree that the US is not even remotely close to 50% userbase for TikTok which makes sense (inverse Pigeonhole principle) if TikTok really has 1b+ active users. However, the US might be a bigger share of the "incomebase" because ads for US users are more valuable.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#852

Post by raxxorraxor » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:51 AM UTC

nyokodo wrote: post #837

logicchains wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see this as a national security threat that it is. The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is, and this bill just gives even more power to the US government to dominate its citizens.

> The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is The US government could, if it wanted to, slaughter the entire civilian population of the US right now and no one could stop them. I don’t believe for a second that China would be so restrained if it suddenly had that power over the USA. So, while it’s true that having the power that it does makes the US government a po…

Very doubtful. Military would defect en masse and you would get a civil war where government gets the boot in the end rather sooner than later.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#853

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:53 AM UTC

nyokodo wrote: post #837

logicchains wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see this as a national security threat that it is. The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is, and this bill just gives even more power to the US government to dominate its citizens.

> The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is The US government could, if it wanted to, slaughter the entire civilian population of the US right now and no one could stop them. I don’t believe for a second that China would be so restrained if it suddenly had that power over the USA. So, while it’s true that having the power that it does makes the US government a po…

[deleted]

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#854

Post by raxxorraxor » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:53 AM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #833

fallingfrog wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

Commerce is not zero sum. When done right both parties gain something. But China’s ambitions directly counter those of the United States. They’re propping up Russia against Ukraine for example. Use of heavy state subsidies and lack of environmental controls mean they can flood the world with cheap solar destroying the incentives for local production. When all the world is dependent on China for something they then ho…

On economic grounds this basically describes what every developing country would try to do as an offensive and hostile action.

But on topic I still think the ban is still old men barking at cloud. Somehow embarrassing really.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#855

Post by omnimus » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:54 AM UTC

beebmam wrote: post #846

noobermin wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the use of the word "enemy" is far too strong, it sounds like we are at war with them while they somehow supply half of our goods at prices we've grown accustomed to. "Adversary" is a weaker word that is more apt (which you use later), where the US is not on the friendliest terms with China but isn't in an outright war with them. Words matter, at the very least to avoid starting nationalistic flamewars…

The US is in a cold war with China as long as China is open to the idea of the use of military force on its neighbors, including Taiwan. A cold war is the only alternative to surrendering the free Taiwanese people to communist rule, and a hot war.

US is also open to the idea to use military force and not only on their neighbours but also on countries far away.

US is in cold war with China because China might soon be economicaly getting upper hand.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#856

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:55 AM UTC

beebmam wrote: post #846

noobermin wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the use of the word "enemy" is far too strong, it sounds like we are at war with them while they somehow supply half of our goods at prices we've grown accustomed to. "Adversary" is a weaker word that is more apt (which you use later), where the US is not on the friendliest terms with China but isn't in an outright war with them. Words matter, at the very least to avoid starting nationalistic flamewars…

The US is in a cold war with China as long as China is open to the idea of the use of military force on its neighbors, including Taiwan. A cold war is the only alternative to surrendering the free Taiwanese people to communist rule, and a hot war.

Exactly. It’s Cold War 2.0 this time we trade with them …

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#857

Post by inkyoto » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:59 AM UTC

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #835

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Can someone please explain to me what the security threat is? I still haven't understood it. If it's that China will know more about Americans through data ingestion, they can already do that. Americans willingly upload every little bit of their lives to YouTube, Twitch, and tons of other platforms. Not to mention that Temu is the most downloaded shopping app in the US. And what kind of attack can TikTok information…

> Can someone please explain to me what the security threat is? I still haven't understood it.

Facial recognition database and tracking people at a global scale.

With advances in computing power and unsupervised machine learning, correlating a person with the person's surroundings is now largely or fully automated – what used to take forensic experts weeks, months or years to hunt down a person by poring over indirect clues in photographs or CCTV camera footage, is now almost instantenous.

Remember, TikTok is not just topless teenagers twerking on the camera, it is used by people to take short videos at random locations (and the locations are already easify to classify and account for), so if you happen to be a dissident (or a person of interest in general) hiding from the CCP, and you happened to have walked past a TikTok user shooting a short video and you got in the shot, your identity is matched up and your current location is revealed automatically, in near real time or with a short delay.

I have almost no doubt that people in TikTok videos are already digitised, and their faceprints are sunk into a gigantic database behind the Great Firewall. It is easy to project what other kinds of nefarious abuse are possible when such datasets are available.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#858

Post by figassis » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:02 AM UTC

pkphilip wrote: post #850

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

I agree. However, banning Tiktok won't change anything. If Tiketok is banned another company will take its place. Now coming to the subject of Facebook, Twitter etc, these apps pose the same threat to nations other than the US. As in, these apps serve US interests by pushing US propaganda onto the rest of the world and constantly monitors/tracks the individuals who have these apps installed. So a better option is to…

Why should the US to other governments jobs? I say this while not being American.

I sometimes get upset when I see that every privacy and safety law is written to protect only US citizens, when it is the US that creates and fuels those predatory companies. And I understand they basically don’t care if they destroy everyone if it benefits them. Great. But what are our governments doing?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#859

Post by pkphilip » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:04 AM UTC

figassis wrote: post #858

pkphilip wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. However, banning Tiktok won't change anything. If Tiketok is banned another company will take its place. Now coming to the subject of Facebook, Twitter etc, these apps pose the same threat to nations other than the US. As in, these apps serve US interests by pushing US propaganda onto the rest of the world and constantly monitors/tracks the individuals who have these apps installed. So a better option is to…

Why should the US to other governments jobs? I say this while not being American. I sometimes get upset when I see that every privacy and safety law is written to protect only US citizens, when it is the US that creates and fuels those predatory companies. And I understand they basically don’t care if they destroy everyone if it benefits them. Great. But what are our governments doing?

I am not saying that US should protect the rights of non-citizens but this will likely result in retaliatory action by other nations on apps from the US.. though I won't hold my breath

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#860

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:04 AM UTC

pkphilip wrote: post #850

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

I agree. However, banning Tiktok won't change anything. If Tiketok is banned another company will take its place. Now coming to the subject of Facebook, Twitter etc, these apps pose the same threat to nations other than the US. As in, these apps serve US interests by pushing US propaganda onto the rest of the world and constantly monitors/tracks the individuals who have these apps installed. So a better option is to…

Yes. Two pronged. Much stronger US consumer data privacy laws including a culling of the business of data brokers. And a total ban of TikTok in the US.