Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#831

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:15 AM UTC

alcoholic_byte wrote: post #631

georgeecollins wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

I think, also with respect to the comments to this comment, we need to appreciate the minute nature of this scenario and statement. Journalists and your everyone else enjoys free speech, it must not be curtailed, neither must it be fostered. While companies as a disembodied judicial entity cannot have speech in the same sense as people of flesh and blood, they can, simply based on their properties, act as an amplifie…

>Would you think it would've been a good idea to have foreign investors from Nazi Germany run newspapers and radios in the states in the 1930s and leading up there?

Good idea? No. But the world isn't exactly ran on good ideas. Instead of Nazi germany newspapers they went straight to american broadcast itself and seeped in like a poison.

And the sad part is I don't even blame them. People want to hear what they agree with. Some may be legitmately brainwashed, but I've seen enough examples of individuals shunning the truth to conclude that we're well into a post-truth era.

>The 60min segment of ABC(Australia) also clearly showed that the TikTok version in China serves more STEM content to kids while the non-Chinese version shows entertainment mostly(let's amuse ourselves to death).

And would Tiktok be the fastest growing social media if it did the same? China can force their citizens to watch whatever they deem worthy. they have literal curfews for playing games implemented by the government. imposing that onto the west is just a bad business decision.

It goes back to the root issue, many westerners have long lost that disciplined to be an educated populace, to identify and defend against bias. to will themselves towards what they need to do as opposed to want. a single social media side won't change that.

>The users won't know the difference between posting on TikTok under Chinese or American ownership.

They would if they pulled out of the US. I'd look forward to the fallout that ensues. Maybe it will get the you to understand the power of their vote.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#832

Post by tadasZ » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:15 AM UTC

fallingfrog wrote: post #820

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

i don't think "cold war is over", in a way it is, but the amount of propaganda tik toks blows my mind and the most important thing is - it's so one sided, that i fully support this bill/law or what it is, EU should do something too.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#833

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:16 AM UTC

fallingfrog wrote: post #820

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

Commerce is not zero sum. When done right both parties gain something. But China’s ambitions directly counter those of the United States. They’re propping up Russia against Ukraine for example. Use of heavy state subsidies and lack of environmental controls mean they can flood the world with cheap solar destroying the incentives for local production. When all the world is dependent on China for something they then hold outside impact.

To not see the coming conflict be it cold or otherwise or not see the CCP for what it is is just ludicrous to me.

They want to — and as they should — become to dominant world power and reshape things as they see fit.

They will take Taiwan by force and it is zero sum: either China and its allies become the world’s leading economy and lead on things or the US and it’s allies remain in “power” and the west continues. This is the threat.

Now I’ve nothing against the people of China. It’s the government that I don’t trust.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#834

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:17 AM UTC

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #816

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Musk has already alluded to bringing back Vine, so the eradication of TikTok would be no great loss. As an aside, I always viewed TikTok as a real world analogue to the mind control subplot from Zoolander (Frankie says 'relax')...

[deleted]

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#835

Post by aprilthird2021 » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:17 AM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Can someone please explain to me what the security threat is? I still haven't understood it.

If it's that China will know more about Americans through data ingestion, they can already do that. Americans willingly upload every little bit of their lives to YouTube, Twitch, and tons of other platforms. Not to mention that Temu is the most downloaded shopping app in the US. And what kind of attack can TikTok information provide that other publicly available online information scraped from other social media sites cannot?

If it's that China can show American citizens a curated list of topics and videos to make Americans think certain ways or vote certain ways, then I absolutely think that's a 1A problem. That's the exact same rhetoric tons of repressive Communist countries used and still use to deny people the freedom to read books from outside, watch movies from outside, read newspapers from outside, etc. And I'm never going to accept the idea that information (even full on lies) so dangerous that people shouldn't be allowed to see them.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#836

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:18 AM UTC

tadasZ wrote: post #832

fallingfrog wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

i don't think "cold war is over", in a way it is, but the amount of propaganda tik toks blows my mind and the most important thing is - it's so one sided, that i fully support this bill/law or what it is, EU should do something too.

Same. The wall fell as did Russian communism but it just swapped antagonists. Now it’s the Chinese government.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#837

Post by nyokodo » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #814

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

>I see this as a national security threat that it is. The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is, and this bill just gives even more power to the US government to dominate its citizens.

> The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is

The US government could, if it wanted to, slaughter the entire civilian population of the US right now and no one could stop them. I don’t believe for a second that China would be so restrained if it suddenly had that power over the USA. So, while it’s true that having the power that it does makes the US government a potential threat, it is nowhere near as much of an actual threat as China.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#838

Post by mjfl » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:22 AM UTC

asadotzler wrote: post #783

mjfl wrote: post #551

The problem with the logic, that a geopolitical adversary shouldn't control a social media company, is that our domestic political system has, as of late, acted quite adversarial to its own population. For that reason, it's not clear to me if China is really a foreign enemy, or an enemy of an enemy. For now, I and many of the younger generation clearly consider it to be the latter, and I will resist all efforts of th…

You can vote out your own representatives, you cannot do the same for China. If this isn't an obvious distinction to you, maybe consider why.

not if both candidates are captured.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#839

Post by 4gotunameagain » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:24 AM UTC

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #835

gigatexal wrote: post #809

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Can someone please explain to me what the security threat is? I still haven't understood it. If it's that China will know more about Americans through data ingestion, they can already do that. Americans willingly upload every little bit of their lives to YouTube, Twitch, and tons of other platforms. Not to mention that Temu is the most downloaded shopping app in the US. And what kind of attack can TikTok information…

It is because it is the adversary who controls the algorithms and suggestions.

The establishment wants and needs a monopoly in shaping the opinions and thoughts of its citizens.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#840

Post by 4gotunameagain » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:26 AM UTC

nyokodo wrote: post #837

logicchains wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see this as a national security threat that it is. The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is, and this bill just gives even more power to the US government to dominate its citizens.

> The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is The US government could, if it wanted to, slaughter the entire civilian population of the US right now and no one could stop them. I don’t believe for a second that China would be so restrained if it suddenly had that power over the USA. So, while it’s true that having the power that it does makes the US government a po…

Just to spell it out, you are suggesting that if "China" could, would conduct a mass scale genocide against Americans ?

And you base that where exactly ?