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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#821

The way I see this is that democracy is extremely susceptible to tools that can change public opinion en masse. This of course applies to Western social media as much as TikTok, and I'd love to see regulation around all social media algorithms to ensure they're unbiased. I see this as a good start to counter a real threat, which is China's ability to influence US elections through TikTok.

Regulation to ensure media is unbiased sounds on the face of it impossible. Anything that looks "unbiased" simply shares the same biases as you.

Exactly right. What is "unbiased" or "neutral".

That said I think some regulatory control is needed. There needs to be some sort of accountability e.g. for intentional propagation of fake news or censorship or defamation. This is no different than requirements for ethical behavior in other industries. Just like we regulate public companies in general we should be able to impose some requirements on any business that distributes media. Free speech for individuals but if you are a business or a media "provider" you need to meet a somewhat higher bar? I think we used to rely on journalistic standards or self regulation but with "new" media (and maybe even with old media) this seems to be not working that well any more. There's a fine line there for sure but seems like whether China owns some social media or someone with US citizenship we still want to have guards against harms this can cause. The amount of power these companies wield is scary.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

> A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. And it's even more implausible to think China would allow this as a result of a US law aimed at limiting China's power. "Ban" is completely appropriate shorthand for "ban (unless something highly improbable occurs)." We can say that Google and Facebook are "banned" or "censored" in China even though China would surely be happy to…

> "Ban" is completely appropriate shorthand for "ban (unless something highly improbable occurs)."

It's only improbable if the suspicion is true, and in that case: good riddance.

Also TikTok apparently isn't even allowed in China they have their own version.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#823
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

I didn't see the parent say there was no precedent. But anyways, I like to hope that the US is better than China. If US citizens are abused while in China, I would be appalled to see Chinese citizens abused in the US as retribution.

> I like to hope that the US is better than China.

I lost hope long ago.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#824

There is some weird inversion going on here. First, I can't find a reason why anyone would laud banning this app. It seems like it's done A LOT for the creator economy, more than Snapchat or Instagram did for anyone before TikTok took off. Second, I'm surprised at the amount of China-hate I'm seeing in here, and elsewhere, over this app. So far, they don't appear to have actually committed any crimes, it's a lot of p…

Go into any thread in the past surrounding this TikTok ban and the comments are the exact opposite.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. My prediction: China would absolutely throw away a few billion to enjoy the chaos that results from the country that preaches free speech painting itself into a corner and banning it. Enacting a ban on the most popular app among Gen Z would cause a huge uproar. It would be like taking away terrestrial radio from boomers. It's that popula…

> Enacting a ban on the most popular app among Gen Z would cause a huge uproar. Or they just move over to FAANG competitors? I've never used TikTok before since it is an app, but I use YouTube shorts and whatever that Instagram short thing is Facebook is pushing into my feed (with...erm...a lot more addictive algorithms than YouTube). Ok, I'm not Gen Z, but it looks like content providers are already hedging their be…

>Or they just move over to FAANG competitors?

Currently the FAANG competitors are much worse; their recommendation engines are inferior. That's why consumers overwhelmingly prefer Tiktok currently.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#826

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

The cold war of authoritarian VS democracy never ended. And China has the ability to turn anyone with mainland access into a asset by holding family hostage and models itself after the British empire. The Indians did have no quarrel with the king of India, until they did. Westcentrism and neutrality are no strategy now that the fascists march again.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see this as a national security threat that it is. The US government is a far greater danger to the average American than the Chinese government is, and this bill just gives even more power to the US government to dominate its citizens.

This statement is not obviously true.

It is also a logical fallacy. Even if it is true that the US is a greater threat in some sense, that doesn't invalidate that China is also a threat. It also doesn't justify not taking this action.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#828

The way I see this is that democracy is extremely susceptible to tools that can change public opinion en masse. This of course applies to Western social media as much as TikTok, and I'd love to see regulation around all social media algorithms to ensure they're unbiased. I see this as a good start to counter a real threat, which is China's ability to influence US elections through TikTok.

It is not just democracy. All governance systems are susceptible to mass communication tools that can change public opinion, be it books, radio, tv, news organizations, or tiktok. It is why many non democratic countries do not have freedom of press, and a highly censored internet. This is a main contributor to Arab Spring. It is just sad that even US is susceptible to this.

Susceptible? 90% of our public discourse is manufactured, and this whole TikTok thing is a prime example.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing is baffling to me. What are you talking about? What enemy? I would rather someone in China has my information than my own government. China has no power over me; my own government does. I don’t care if china knows whether I like cheesecake better than blueberry pie. They’re interested in monitoring their own citizens, im sure- for the same reasons our own government agencies and corporate behemoths m…

The cold war of authoritarian VS democracy never ended. And China has the ability to turn anyone with mainland access into a asset by holding family hostage and models itself after the British empire. The Indians did have no quarrel with the king of India, until they did. Westcentrism and neutrality are no strategy now that the fascists march again.

Word salad. There isn’t really any coherent thought there for me to respond to.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#830

I see this as a national security threat that it is. The potential for abuse from the CCP on the minds of US users exists as does the tracking the app could do and every data point that is generated is stored and potentially useful for blackmail or otherwise on members of Congress or others. The US and its allies got rid of Chinese telecom hardware from their networks for the very same reasons now it’s time to do the…

Musk has already alluded to bringing back Vine, so the eradication of TikTok would be no great loss. As an aside, I always viewed TikTok as a real world analogue to the mind control subplot from Zoolander (Frankie says 'relax')...

We already have YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, and even LinkedIn to fill the short video void - bringing back Vine would be a Johnny-come-lately move.
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