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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#691

Post by jibe »

holmesworcester wrote: post #603
georgeecollins wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

> A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. And it's even more implausible to think China would allow this as a result of a US law aimed at limiting China's power. "Ban" is completely appropriate shorthand for "ban (unless something highly improbable occurs)." We can say that Google and Facebook are "banned" or "censored" in China even though China would surely be happy to…

The bill doesn’t block access to TikTok, it blocks US companies from doing business with TikTok. So it isn’t exactly a ban, or censorship.

If TikTok wants to give up the revenue, they can continue to send propaganda to the US, and kids can continue to watch and make videos.

China blocks access to Google. Whatever you want to call what the TikTok bill does, it is not the same as what China does.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#693

Post by bdd8f1df777b »

csa wrote: post #686
bdd8f1df777b wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US bans TikTok citing the same reasons China bans foreign social media, to avoid influence from foreign adversaries (people below says that China never official bans it, but China is inconsistent on that). It is only fair from a business perspective, but it also means that China's ideology wins over American in the end. The China's own social media is full of posts ridiculing people like me who have believed in t…

Next level sock puppetry!

I was called a US sock puppet on Chinese social media and then a Chinese sock puppet here. I guess people everywhere are the same, doing ad hominem attacks whenever they see people having an opposite opinion.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#694

Post by throwawayq3423 »

dluan wrote: post #619
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't actually ban American social networks, not officially at least. They just don't work for some reason due to technical issues. China has never said "we ban Facebook and Google", you just wake up one day and they aren't working anymore.

in practicality it doesnt matter because you can easily circumvent it with a VPN and nearly every single person does

If you try and operative a service that relies on frictionless access by saying your users have to fly abroad to download it, and use an illegal and increasingly spotting VPN service to access it, it's banned. You simply cannot succeed under these conditions.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#695

Post by chiefalchemist »

Question: Biden will also soon sign the extension to the FISA surveillance powers. How is the ownership of TikTok (and location of the data centers) impacted by the expansion of FISA powers?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-renews-fisa...

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#696

Post by chottocharaii »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #617
benced wrote: post #615

The WTO allows China to ban American social networks - which would otherwise be required to be allowed under its general principle of parity - because of its "public morals" exception ( https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/repertory_e/g4_... ). I personally don't think that exception should exist and I'm OK banning it solely on trade parity grounds.

China doesn't actually ban American social networks, not officially at least. They just don't work for some reason due to technical issues. China has never said "we ban Facebook and Google", you just wake up one day and they aren't working anymore.

These kinds of comments are legally ignorant. I’m always taken aback by these kinds of “but actually” comments on HN that ‘correct’ another user without any regard to how the law would be applied.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#697

Post by LeroyRaz »

roncesvalles wrote: post #621
danielhep wrote: post #542

The way I see this is that democracy is extremely susceptible to tools that can change public opinion en masse. This of course applies to Western social media as much as TikTok, and I'd love to see regulation around all social media algorithms to ensure they're unbiased. I see this as a good start to counter a real threat, which is China's ability to influence US elections through TikTok.

If this were true, TikTok wouldn't have ended up in a ban.

No. Your statement does not follow.

TikTok can be undermining the US (and potentially be a growing problem) without it being currently capable of preventing itself being banned.

By your logic, nobody should go to hospital when sick, as if they can go to hospital then they must not be sick.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#698

Post by throwawayq3423 »

bdd8f1df777b wrote: post #658
benced wrote: post #615

The WTO allows China to ban American social networks - which would otherwise be required to be allowed under its general principle of parity - because of its "public morals" exception ( https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/repertory_e/g4_... ). I personally don't think that exception should exist and I'm OK banning it solely on trade parity grounds.

The US bans TikTok citing the same reasons China bans foreign social media, to avoid influence from foreign adversaries (people below says that China never official bans it, but China is inconsistent on that). It is only fair from a business perspective, but it also means that China's ideology wins over American in the end. The China's own social media is full of posts ridiculing people like me who have believed in t…

> China's ideology wins over American in the end.

Influence operations aren't about "winning" or even convincing anyone anymore. It's about flooding peoples screens with untold amounts of toxic garbage.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#699

Post by bl4ckneon »

LeroyRaz wrote: post #692

I support this move. It seems pretty naive to me for people to whine about this ban curbing free speech or fairness when TikTok can directly be used by a belligerent superpower (China) to undermine those values.

Do we have proof of that though. Other than "China bad" and the parent company being partially owned by China. It's really banning it on a hypothetical and TikTok doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are many other platforms and I would argue that X does more censorship than TikTok does.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#700

Post by throwawayq3423 »

codedokode wrote: post #571
georgeecollins wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

> You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen Because freedom of speech doesn't work in practice?

No because a US person can be called in to answer questions in a court of law or before congress. If the owner is Chinese living in London, where would you even begin ?
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