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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are reticent to admit that unfettered globalism (especially in the internet which was meant to connect the world) is bad and has serious security implications. It should've been obvious retrospectively, but folks were lulled by a sense of post-soviet optimism.

Im concerned this represents a more general trend towards severing the small connections between countries formed on things like social networks, and that in doing so we’re opening ourselves up to a public that will be more supportive of useless war.

If anything, social networks will only fuel support for war, as we're seeing with Russia and Ukraine.

Among the more liberal-minded Russians like me and most people I know back home, support for the Ukrainians had collapsed after two years of interacting with them online. It's become so bad, some people I met on the net have actually gone from opposing the war to volunteering to join the Russian army. And as for the Ukrainian side, their opinion of the common people of Russia is no better.

Anyway, we had way more of the "small links" you mentioned than you guys will ever have with the Chinese. A lot of us have family on the other side, even more had good friends across the border. The war destroyed most of these connections, and in case the West and China fall into a war, I don't see any reason whatsoever for you to do any better.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

I think, also with respect to the comments to this comment, we need to appreciate the minute nature of this scenario and statement. Journalists and your everyone else enjoys free speech, it must not be curtailed, neither must it be fostered. While companies as a disembodied judicial entity cannot have speech in the same sense as people of flesh and blood, they can, simply based on their properties, act as an amplifie…

Do we allow Soviet Union to have …

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#673
post #615

The WTO allows China to ban American social networks - which would otherwise be required to be allowed under its general principle of parity - because of its "public morals" exception ( https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/repertory_e/g4_... ). I personally don't think that exception should exist and I'm OK banning it solely on trade parity grounds.

China doesn't actually ban American social networks, not officially at least. They just don't work for some reason due to technical issues. China has never said "we ban Facebook and Google", you just wake up one day and they aren't working anymore.

[deleted]

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#674

If I were Bytedance I would cut off the US. I certainly would not sell to a competitor. And I’d probably do a licensing deal for the content with a new entity without US based shareholders.

What do you think would happen to the value of a company cutting of the richest country in the world?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US company would never be allowed to own any kind of social media company in China. You can't own a broadcast station in the US as a non-US citizen. Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to buy Fox. I don't know if I agree with this but you can't say there is no precedent for it in the US or in China.

I think, also with respect to the comments to this comment, we need to appreciate the minute nature of this scenario and statement. Journalists and your everyone else enjoys free speech, it must not be curtailed, neither must it be fostered. While companies as a disembodied judicial entity cannot have speech in the same sense as people of flesh and blood, they can, simply based on their properties, act as an amplifie…

Wall of text, yet this part is interesting.

> TikTok version in China serves more STEM content to kids while the non-Chinese version shows entertainment mostly

This portion is rarely discussed. The algorithm that serves content, should be the algorithm that serves content. If kid who likes STEM in America searches STEM content, kid in America should get STEM content. Same in China. Kid likes STEM content, kids get STEM content.

(example based on physical addiction) If I was a smoker, and Phillip Morris completely changed it's marketing near me, and sold completely different cigarettes in my local area that were wildly different than the market standard, just because there was a local smoker inhabiting the area, I'd be furious. Especially if they were "dumbed down" versions of what actual smokers got.

If a website serves me wildly different content, even if we search for the same terms, have the same interests, then that's a load of BS. And if I was in China, I'd also be vaguely annoyed at the nanny state behavior.

"Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?" Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, 'Essays on Mind and Matter'

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#676

if you've been to China, you'll know that they ban all western products: facebook, google, etc etc and replaced them with their own variants. If they want to run around free-range without any restriction with their own products then they should respond by loosening restrictions in their own country. This is an absolute no-brainer. If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Am I missing something?

China is communist. That is not the bar we are holding ourselves to.

for some reason capitalist countries love trading with them, gee I wonder why.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#677
post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always in favor of banning it for this reason, but I'm concerned that Biden is now banning it for a different reason. The timing is interesting. Certain lobby groups have been urging Congress on this due to TikTok videos about the war in Gaza. Then again, Trump was also trying to ban it for his own reasons.

I don't think it's accurate to say Biden is banning it. The vote in the House was very bipartisan. R's were like 92% in favor and D's more like 75%. Yes: 155 D + 197 R No: 50 D + 15 R On Monday the White House clarified its position: "We do not want to ban apps like TikTok. What we want – and what the legislation we support would do – is ensure that TikTok becomes owned by an American company so that our and our chil…

so they want to outsource to nations where paucity of labor and environmental laws give corporations higher margins, but is ready to force a ban if US laws cannot control the narrative and influence people. Okay

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#678

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

Just because it doesn’t say “ban” doesn’t mean its not one. It is well known that China lists algorithms and AI models trained on citizen data as a non-export so tiktok will never be able to sell to anyone other than a Chinese company unless they retrain the model etc. The CEO has mentioned that they will simply pull out of the US market.

As I understand TikTok has been investing in building out a U.S. fulfillment center network over the past two years, perhaps a drop in the bucket for them. With this investment and the loads of U.S employees they have I would be surprised if they leave their large (largest?) user base.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US bans TikTok citing the same reasons China bans foreign social media, to avoid influence from foreign adversaries (people below says that China never official bans it, but China is inconsistent on that). It is only fair from a business perspective, but it also means that China's ideology wins over American in the end. The China's own social media is full of posts ridiculing people like me who have believed in t…

This is a really poor argument. You are equating banning one social media app with the GFW, which is obviously a huge hyperbole which has nothing to do with reality. The Great Firewall operates by checking transmission control protocol (TCP) packets for keywords or sensitive words. That is a violation of freedom of thought at the infrastructure level. As an American, you are still free to visit Chinese hosted website…

Say what you will, but I won't be able to espouse the virtues of freedom of speech in China anymore. The distinction you make isn't going to convince any one.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#680
Good - the ccp influence over what content is elevated or censored on TikTok is a serious national security problem, forcing a divesture is good independent of the inequality on trade with the ccp blocking American companies.

If they refuse to divest it’ll be even more obvious it’s the ccp tool we suspect it is.

Also the TikTok ceo lied about this under oath in Congress: https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-calls-for-doj-investigati...

Stratechery also had a good write up on this issue from a while back: https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/

Nice to see some bipartisan support on something.

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