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IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

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Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#151
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hashi code, such as Terraform, was (is) an amazing example of a good reference Go codebase. It was very hard for me to get into Go because, outside of the language trivia and hype, it was hard to learn about the patterns and best practices needed for building even a mid-sized application.

That's interesting. I found Go to be a very productive and easy language, coming from Typescript. But I had a similar experience like yours with PHP, I just couldn't get into it.

I find the claims that Go is easy just wrong. It's actually a harder language to write in because without discipline, you are going to end up maintaining massive amounts of boilerplate.

That's from someone who did a bunch - Perl, Ruby, Python, Java, C++, Scala.

Syntax is one thing, assembling an application with maintainable code is something else.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#152

If this accelerates migration away from Terraform towards a standard, open, IaC platform, then it's a good thing. Something like the JSON version of Terraform that can be generated by different tools, but an open standard instead. Be "interesting" to see what happens to the recently-renamed Terraform Cloud (now Hashicorp Cloud Platform Terraform :eyeroll:) Edited to add: I'm guessing the feature I want added to the t…

> Something like the JSON version of Terraform that can be generated by different tools, but an open standard instead. God, please no. The worst thing about all these tools is the terrible formats they keep choosing. Given the directions we’ve (“cutting edge” programmers and server ops folks) chosen to go instead, leaving XML behind was a big mistake. I’d prefer something better, but yaml and json are so terrible tha…

Agree on YAML, disagree on JSON.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#153
post #53

Certainly an interesting turn of events. I really enjoy using Terraform (and Terraform cloud) for work but the license changes made me cautious to integrate anymore.

What was the licensing changes? I see a lot of references to it as though it was common knowledge, but I'm not aware of them. Edit: found something: https://www.hashicorp.com/blog/hashicorp-adopts-business-sou...

Yeah, they went from a more permissive license (Mozilla MPL) to a less permissive one (BUSL) but I can kind of understand why. I can also understand why the OSS community is upset, and after Hashicorp went after OpenTOFU recently, I'm siding more with the OSS community here.

Before the license change, another project (Pulumi) built something that was basically a thin wrapper on Terraform and some convenient functionality. They claim they tried to submit PRs upstream. Hashicorp loudly complained about organizations that were using their source without making contributions back when they changed to BUSL. I wasn't close enough to be aware of details there, but maybe there were other groups (I can think of Terragrunt, too, but I'm not sure they're included in the parties Hashicorp was complaining about. Terragrunt did side with OpenTOFU after the license change, though). This also means cloud providers can't stand up their own Terraform cloud service product as it could interfere with the BUSL license.

When the license was updated to BUSL, several contributors forked the last MPL-licensed version into OpenTF, then renamed to OpenTOFU. Some say that Hashicorp should have gone full closed-source to own their decision. I think they knew they were benefitting greatly from several large corporations' contributions for provider-specific configuration templates and types.

Then, earlier this month (two weeks ago?) Hashicorp brought a case against OpenTOFU claiming they have stolen code from the BUSL-licensed version, with OpenTOFU outright denying the claim. We'll see how that shakes out, but it shows that Hashicorp wasn't merely concerned about copyright & business/naming concerns (a big part of why other BUSL-licensed projects chose the license). I don't know if the upcoming M&A had anything to do with their license decision but I kind of doubt it? Maybe others here have more context or are more familiar with matters than I am.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#154
Back in 2015 I discovered a security issue with some Dell software[1]. I remember vividly getting an email about a job opportunity based entirely on this from a company with a strange name, that after some googling made a thing called Vagrant. They seemed super nice but I was far too young and immature to properly evaluate the opportunity, so after a few emails I ghosted them out of fear of the unknown. In 2015 they had 50 employees and had just raised a 10 million series A[2].

Regardless of various things that have happened, or things that could have been, the company has pushed the envelope with some absolute bangers and we are all better for it, directly or indirectly.

Regardless of what the general opinion is of Hashicorp’s future post-IBM, they made an impact and that should be celebrated, not decried or sorrowed over for lack of a perceived picture perfect ending.

Such is life.

1. https://tomforb.es/blog/dell-system-detect-rce-vulnerability...

2. https://www.hashicorp.com/about/origin-story

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#155
post #97
post #49

Well, it was nice while it lasted! HashiCorp always felt like a company made by actual engineers, not "bean counters". Now it will just be another cog in the IBM machine, slowly grinding it down, removing everything attractive, just like RedHat and CentOS. Hopefully this will create a new wave off innovation, and someone will create something to replace the monopoly on IaC that IBM now owns.

A lot of the people I respected from Heroku went there, glad they got a chance to use their skills to build something useful and profitable; glader still that they got their payout. Sadly I echo your sentiment about the future, as someone who has heard second-hand about the quality of work at modern Redhat. I am wondering how many more rounds of consolidation are left until there is no more space to innovate and we o…

our current economic model kind of depends on the idea that we can always disrupt the status quo with american free market ingenuity once it begins to stagnate but maybe we have reached the limits of what friedman's system can do or accounted for.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#156
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand people’s beef with IBM. They have been responsible for incredible R&D within computing. I even LIKE redhat/fedora! HashiCorp had already been sold out since waaaay before this acquisition and I also don’t understand why their engineers are seen as “special”…

People's beef here with IBM is they don't make shiny phones and laptops and don't create hip jobs where you're paid 500k+ to "change the world" by selling ads or making the 69th messaging app. They just focus on tried and tested boring SW that big businesses find useful and that's not popular on HN which is more startup and disruption focused.

There are a number of valid criticisms about IBM

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#157
post #62

> By joining IBM, HashiCorp products can be made available to a much larger audience, enabling us to serve many more users and customers. I'm really wondering who is kidding who here. Is it IBM or Hashi?

IBM has its mitts into finance, defence, aerospace -- and these industries generally stick to IBM / IBM sanctioned products. So with IBM selling Vault / Boundary (in particular) they will get better adoption.

In my experience IBM uses the sexy stuff (used to be OpenShift) to get meetings then sells the same old boring IBM software and services after the initial meetings.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#158

IBM will gut everything to the bone and send most of the jobs to India. There will be nothing worth of using pretty soon as we will all move to the next big foss thing.

There is plenty of money to milk from existing customers using Vault. For everyone else, yes - time to move on.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#159
Question: Is the tldr of companies like these that they sell enterprise server software? And often own the hardware too (data centers)? And then sell a bunch of consulting services on top of that to Fortune 500s and governments? It's tempting to think "How are these guys even relevant anymore?" but IBM's making $60B+ a year with over $10B cash on hand, apparently from mostly "consulting services".

For a lot of developers including me, I never think about IBM or HashiCorp (or Oracle, SAP, etc.) and it's hard to imagine why someone would want to use their software compared to something newer, friendlier, cheaper, and probably faster. Is it just relationships?

Just curious how customers are actually getting value from an IBM or a HashiCorp or an Oracle.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#160

If this accelerates migration away from Terraform towards a standard, open, IaC platform, then it's a good thing. Something like the JSON version of Terraform that can be generated by different tools, but an open standard instead. Be "interesting" to see what happens to the recently-renamed Terraform Cloud (now Hashicorp Cloud Platform Terraform :eyeroll:) Edited to add: I'm guessing the feature I want added to the t…

> Something like the JSON version of Terraform that can be generated by different tools, but an open standard instead. God, please no. The worst thing about all these tools is the terrible formats they keep choosing. Given the directions we’ve (“cutting edge” programmers and server ops folks) chosen to go instead, leaving XML behind was a big mistake. I’d prefer something better, but yaml and json are so terrible tha…

You'd write in a language designed for humans, and that would get translated into a language for computers. In other words, JSON.

What are your reasons for disliking JSON?

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