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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#261

Post by Aloha »

autoexec wrote: post #244
efitz wrote: post #179

I see the feedback here is overwhelmingly negative. My biggest problem is that it’s too narrowly targeted. I have worked for several US businesses with global footprints and working with China (and some other countries) required whole or part ownership of the business by entities within that nation. So we partnered with businesses in China to set up and operate our infra, and had to manage everything through contract…

> Further, Chinese government officials would show up unannounced and plug shit into our networks, and required access to our encryption keys and accounts databases and employee & customer lists etc. This happens in the US too and has been happening for a very long time ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A ) only when it happens to US companies they get gag orders and/or paid off. (see https://www.theguardian.co…

While I'm not always thrilled that about the amount of monitoring United States Government does, as a United States Citizen, my government is at least marginally accountable to me - if enough of us are bothered by this policy, we can choose to elect representatives who will change it.

I can't say that about China, certainly not to me as a United States Citizen, and not even really to Chinese Citizens either - which is why it's another thing entirely when a foreign government is doing this level of monitoring on United States Soil.

China is welcome to monitor its own citizens on its own soil to the extent it desires - and monitor communications in and out of China - they're however not welcome to do that level of monitoring on United States Soil on anyone who resides here - at least not without the explicit consent of the United States Government.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#263

Post by Aloha »

mrtksn wrote: post #257
efitz wrote: post #179

I see the feedback here is overwhelmingly negative. My biggest problem is that it’s too narrowly targeted. I have worked for several US businesses with global footprints and working with China (and some other countries) required whole or part ownership of the business by entities within that nation. So we partnered with businesses in China to set up and operate our infra, and had to manage everything through contract…

I know this is not straight up a ban but it is a ban. Maybe Musk will buy it for pennies ona dollar and will turn my TikTok feed to my Twitter feed, which is full of lunatics, conspiracy theories, racist, dog whistle racist, conman and Tesla boys. Maybe Zuck will buy it and will start showing hot girls, meals and tourist attractions like they do on Instagram? Since I'm not it the USA, maybe I will be able to use the…

I've watched people end up radicalized by content on TikTok - in ways that twitter, facebook, youtube, et al doesn't seem to do. You end up seeing the opening for a rabbit hole, and then suddenly you're very deep into said rabbit hole.

I get your concerns over loss of something you enjoy - but the content is steerable enough by algorithm and addictive enough that a little twiddle of the knob, and suddenly a bunch of people believe some very harmful and hard to eliminate untruths.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#264

Post by Aloha »

nebula8804 wrote: post #232
efitz wrote: post #179

I see the feedback here is overwhelmingly negative. My biggest problem is that it’s too narrowly targeted. I have worked for several US businesses with global footprints and working with China (and some other countries) required whole or part ownership of the business by entities within that nation. So we partnered with businesses in China to set up and operate our infra, and had to manage everything through contract…

>China and other countries do far worse to us than just requiring local ownership of businesses; and if they feel that is in their national interest, why can’t we return the favor when we feel it’s in our interest? This is bigger than China for a lot of people. TikTok has given an alternative voice to groups typically marginalized on pro-Western platforms. We typically see hypocrisy from the West when it comes to Isr…

I'm not seeing any issue with those voices finding a space elsewhere say on X/Twitter - believe me, I see enough of the slop over from it.

The level of direct control the US Government has over US Social Media platforms pales in comparison to the control China has over TikTok.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#265

Post by wumeow »

autoexec wrote: post #244
efitz wrote: post #179

I see the feedback here is overwhelmingly negative. My biggest problem is that it’s too narrowly targeted. I have worked for several US businesses with global footprints and working with China (and some other countries) required whole or part ownership of the business by entities within that nation. So we partnered with businesses in China to set up and operate our infra, and had to manage everything through contract…

> Further, Chinese government officials would show up unannounced and plug shit into our networks, and required access to our encryption keys and accounts databases and employee & customer lists etc. This happens in the US too and has been happening for a very long time ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A ) only when it happens to US companies they get gag orders and/or paid off. (see https://www.theguardian.co…

> The difference is that when the servers are in China the US government can't get that kind of access/cooperation.

Except that TikTok’s data, or the main copy of it at least, resides in the US, so the evil US govt theoretically already has access to it. That’s not the motivation for this bill.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#266

Post by walthamstow »

SnorkelTan wrote: post #243
THENATHE wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason it is kind of wild is because a company being forced to sell basically the only thing it has in order to stay relevant in the second most major region of the world is kind of big news, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they just took the ban and then only started working in Europe and China. Is bytedance even known for anything other than tiktok? What do they do other than provide the service for tiktok?

It originally started in china as short video sharing and is quite successful there. TikTok came after their home market success. I’m spacing on the name.

I believe it's Douyin

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#268

Post by mrtksn »

Aloha wrote: post #263
mrtksn wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is not straight up a ban but it is a ban. Maybe Musk will buy it for pennies ona dollar and will turn my TikTok feed to my Twitter feed, which is full of lunatics, conspiracy theories, racist, dog whistle racist, conman and Tesla boys. Maybe Zuck will buy it and will start showing hot girls, meals and tourist attractions like they do on Instagram? Since I'm not it the USA, maybe I will be able to use the…

I've watched people end up radicalized by content on TikTok - in ways that twitter, facebook, youtube, et al doesn't seem to do. You end up seeing the opening for a rabbit hole, and then suddenly you're very deep into said rabbit hole. I get your concerns over loss of something you enjoy - but the content is steerable enough by algorithm and addictive enough that a little twiddle of the knob, and suddenly a bunch of…

Really? People get radicalised on the American social media all the time. Then go shoot people, all the time. Numerous shootings were organised on 4Chan&similar. What did your radicalised ones did may I ask? I hope it's more than having the "wrong" opinions on hot topics.

Can we please stop admiring China, Russia, DPRK and other similar countries where having the "wrong opinions" is considered radicalisation?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#269

Post by Klathmon »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #107
superkuh wrote: post #39

>app stores in the US would have to drop the app, and Internet hosting services would be prohibited from providing services that enable distribution of TikTok in the US So just install it like a normal application instead of using an "app store". But does this mean if I host the .apk or whatever on my personal website I would be breaking the law?

> does this mean if I host the .apk or whatever on my personal website I would be breaking the law Yes, provided you are doing it in a way "through which users within the land or maritime borders of the United States may access, maintain, or update such application" [1]. (It would be perfectly legal to go to TikTok.com, however.) [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521... § 2(a)(1)(A)

Why would tiktok.com be allowed?

The bill itself says:

> The term “foreign adversary controlled application” means a website, desktop application, mobile application, or augmented or immersive technology application that is operated...

So the website is explicitly included in that

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#270

Post by TeaBrain »

seattle_spring wrote: post #44
jMyles wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, at least anecdotally, it is very widely used, along with virtually every other resource that that Chinese state regards as banned.

I think they meant the US domain tiktok.com is banned. TikTok itself is not banned in CN, and its web presence there is likely available at the respective CN domain. I’m guessing it’s tiktok.cn, but I’m not checking so I take no responsibility if it’s a phishing domain.

Douyin as someone else mentioned is the Chinese equivalent to TikTok and it has completely separate content. The international TikTok content (not US specific) is not available in China.
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