Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 1001 posts

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#191

Post by bluSCALE4 »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #88
bluSCALE4 wrote: post #55

Crazy, all the spying we do and we can't provide any definitive proof of anything yet we're jumping to banning a company. Looks like all that red scare stuff isn't a thing of the past, eh? And we all get to suffer for it. From losing a platform, to facing shadow bans with no recourse, to laws being passed that continue to stamp out our civil liberties to the point that we forget they were even there, what's it all fo…

From what I understand it’s not just about spying. The Chinese Communist Party knows how harmful and addictive the algorithm is that the Chinese version of the app focuses on showing higher quality content (quality as judged by them). So if they know it’s harmful, they have an interest on showing low quality content to the western audience and possibly psychologically and intellectually affect an entire generation.

Whenever I open YouTube in Private mode, I get nonstop soft porn material. US companies are doing enough harm all on their own.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#192

Post by j0ba »

themgt wrote: post #135
intellix wrote: post #64

if you've been to China, you'll know that they ban all western products: facebook, google, etc etc and replaced them with their own variants. If they want to run around free-range without any restriction with their own products then they should respond by loosening restrictions in their own country. This is an absolute no-brainer. If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Am I missing something?

The story back in the ancient history of ~1989->2021 was our free open liberal system was so obviously superior that we were just going to wait around for China to realize their dumb mistake and join us at the end of history. Their great firewall would cripple their economy until then. The new story is we're copying China's tactics because China did it first and it works great. I mean, sure, go with that. But it does…

Nonsense. A free and open system does not require foreign adversaries to be given free access to manipulate and control the population. That's not an open system, that's pure stupidity.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#193

Post by autoexec »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #122
willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

The US has had rules against foreign ownership of media since forever. The main geopolitical rival having control over the largest source of media consumed by children (which incidentally, is banned in China) is insane and should have been stopped a long time ago. People talk about data collection. I am sure that is happening, but the far bigger issue is having a regime who wishes you harm in change of what your youn…

> The US has had rules against foreign ownership of media since forever.

Why doesn't this apply to websites hosted overseas generally, or for other countries besides china. I can access media at www.abc.net.au just fine.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#195

Post by Thiez »

jvanderbot wrote: post #43
mrtksn wrote: post #29

From the world where the USA was the bastion of free speech which was condemning countries like Turkey for blocking social media to a world where the USA blocks social media. I guess when the reasons are about money(i.e. Chinese block American companies) its all good because it can't be about national security since the countries who used to block American social media were condemned for doing it in the name of natio…

TikTok will continue to function as normal. This is only a ban if bytedance does not divest, which they will.

What makes you say that? What do they possibly have to gain by selling their main product?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#196

Post by tristor »

themgt wrote: post #135
intellix wrote: post #64

if you've been to China, you'll know that they ban all western products: facebook, google, etc etc and replaced them with their own variants. If they want to run around free-range without any restriction with their own products then they should respond by loosening restrictions in their own country. This is an absolute no-brainer. If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Am I missing something?

The story back in the ancient history of ~1989->2021 was our free open liberal system was so obviously superior that we were just going to wait around for China to realize their dumb mistake and join us at the end of history. Their great firewall would cripple their economy until then. The new story is we're copying China's tactics because China did it first and it works great. I mean, sure, go with that. But it does…

> The story back in the ancient history of ~1989->2021 was our free open liberal system was so obviously superior that we were just going to wait around for China to realize their dumb mistake

That story worked out fine until US companies started sending all their IP over to China for manufacturing which resulted in 3 key outcomes that broke the initial strategy:

1. It funded and supported the buildout of China's manufacturing base. China now has the best manufacturing base in the world, and in some cases is the only place in the world certain things can be feasibly made.

2. It guaranteed an export market for Chinese goods which helped to drive their economic engine.

3. It allowed unfettered industrial espionage. There is a reason that nearly every product in existence has a Chinese clone/counterfeit available within a week of launch.

The strategy failed, because the Great Firewall only keeps information out of China that the government wants kept out of China, but any other information goes in, but it prevents pretty much all information from flowing out. Firewalls are not binary, they are tunable with policy, and the Chinese government has historically had a strong strategy and nuanced policy, which has allowed them to see great economic success despite reducing freedom of information. Fundamentally, it's economics that drives the rise and fall of governments.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#197

Post by slg »

trevoragilbert wrote: post #120
slg wrote: post #75

>The "Protecting Americans From Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act" was approved as part of a larger appropriations bill that provides aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. Regardless of your opinions on TikTok, this type of thing is incredibly frustrating and routine practice in American politics. Can't actually get support for the legislation you want? Just add it on to some other completely unrelated piec…

Historically this is just how it works. You want law x passed and I'm ambivalent about it, I want law y passed and you're ambivalent about it. We both need each other to pass either of them, so we agree to pass both as part of a larger law. This isn't a new thing and has been happening since the 1800s. As early as the decision to make DC the capital we've traded goals through compromise. The process does get abused a…

There is no reason a compromise needs to be formalized into a singular piece of legislation. Doing it this way helps politicians avoid accountability because it gives them plausible deniability to say they didn't support specific provisions of the overall bill. I think that is ultimately worse for our political system than making passing legislation more difficult.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#198

Post by linearrust »

slg wrote: post #75

>The "Protecting Americans From Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act" was approved as part of a larger appropriations bill that provides aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. Regardless of your opinions on TikTok, this type of thing is incredibly frustrating and routine practice in American politics. Can't actually get support for the legislation you want? Just add it on to some other completely unrelated piec…

And the media will provide cover by calling it the tiktok bill to distract the people from the $60 billion given to ukraine and $26 billion given to israel. Wonderful isn't it?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#199

Post by Brybry »

yieldcrv wrote: post #12
willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

yes, we’re okay with that - or its not a statement on that, the goal is for TikTok to be sold to Americans with a ban being the fall back outcome

I don't believe it has to be sold to Americans. It just can't be "controlled by a foreign adversary" (which is a very specific set of criteria in the law). [1]

There are plenty of scenarios where TikTok ends up under non-American control. Only four countries (China, Iran, North Korea, Russia) are foreign adversary countries. [2]

[1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8038...

[2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/4872#d_2

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#200

Post by gretch »

themgt wrote: post #135
intellix wrote: post #64

if you've been to China, you'll know that they ban all western products: facebook, google, etc etc and replaced them with their own variants. If they want to run around free-range without any restriction with their own products then they should respond by loosening restrictions in their own country. This is an absolute no-brainer. If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Am I missing something?

The story back in the ancient history of ~1989->2021 was our free open liberal system was so obviously superior that we were just going to wait around for China to realize their dumb mistake and join us at the end of history. Their great firewall would cripple their economy until then. The new story is we're copying China's tactics because China did it first and it works great. I mean, sure, go with that. But it does…

We're copying china's tactics wrt CHINA specifically (and other foreign adversaries)

This is not the same thing as copying China's approach to the world

Reciprocation is rational and good

Post reply on HN