Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#161

Post by greenish_shores » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

jncfhnb wrote: post #78

lispisok wrote: post #4

Maybe I'm ignorant but can somebody explain to me how the federal government can just ban TikTok? If I create an app or business can the feds just decide to ban it and it's over?

What would give you the impression that the government cannot ban a business?

For example, how would they address it? Govt banning services of ByteDance Inc.? They will change their name. Services of company headquartered at 11 Example Street, ExampleTown, PRC? Change their headquarters. Services using given logo? Modify the logo. Services using given brand name? Change it slightly. IP address range? Domain name? And so on.

Internet service by one company is not trivial to address in a "ban". Unlike, for example, a chemical molecule. At least they have the experience in specifying and addressing that.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#162

Post by mchanson » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

flohofwoe wrote: post #130

bluSCALE4 wrote: post #55

Crazy, all the spying we do and we can't provide any definitive proof of anything yet we're jumping to banning a company. Looks like all that red scare stuff isn't a thing of the past, eh? And we all get to suffer for it. From losing a platform, to facing shadow bans with no recourse, to laws being passed that continue to stamp out our civil liberties to the point that we forget they were even there, what's it all fo…

OTH, western social media platforms cannot operate in China, why should Chinese social media platforms be allowed to operate in the western world? Even without the whole "spy angle" it makes a lot of sense, trade wars like this happen all the time also between western nations. If China opens up their market, things can be reconsidered.

There are a lot of things China does which limits US reach within their country that the US, as a more free society, would not be a good fit for the US.

This seems to me to be one of things we probably should not have done.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#163

Post by THENATHE » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #42

>app stores in the US would have to drop the app, and Internet hosting services would be prohibited from providing services that enable distribution of TikTok in the US So just install it like a normal application instead of using an "app store". But does this mean if I host the .apk or whatever on my personal website I would be breaking the law?

Yes. Hosting it for personal use would not be a crime, but distributing it would be. Additionally, even if people were to get it from you without you getting in trouble, they would all have to use a VPN to even begin to see anything, which is past the capabilities of most of the populace currently, which would make hosting it and distributing it via sneakerware basically useless.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#164

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

bluSCALE4 wrote: post #55

Crazy, all the spying we do and we can't provide any definitive proof of anything yet we're jumping to banning a company. Looks like all that red scare stuff isn't a thing of the past, eh? And we all get to suffer for it. From losing a platform, to facing shadow bans with no recourse, to laws being passed that continue to stamp out our civil liberties to the point that we forget they were even there, what's it all fo…

[deleted]

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#165

Post by bluSCALE4 » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #32

willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

> I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Arguments or statements like this only serve to piss people off. It probably does benefit Meta but that has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not the bill should be passed.

A comment mocking a willingness to promote monopolization and the feigning of free, fair, open markets has no bearing?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#166

Post by stefan_ » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #75

>The "Protecting Americans From Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act" was approved as part of a larger appropriations bill that provides aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. Regardless of your opinions on TikTok, this type of thing is incredibly frustrating and routine practice in American politics. Can't actually get support for the legislation you want? Just add it on to some other completely unrelated piec…

This was an amendment that was individually voted on

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#167

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

jjordan wrote: post #97

ok123456 wrote: post #41

I won't stop using it.

You won't have to, but if an actual ban went through, and an iPhone is your only means of connection, you would be truly SOL, because Apple's captured ecosystem only allows users to run what Apple will permit. We need open ecosystems and access to full root-level control of our devices by default. Accept no substitutes.

> if an actual ban went through, and an iPhone is your only means of connection, you would be truly SOL

No, you'd just go to the website.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#168

Post by ipaddr » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

nme01 wrote: post #124

This shows that values such as “freedom of speech” are only key words used to enforce US policy in other countries. For such a long time it was advocated that free speech is an important thing and good in and on itself. Now it turns out the free speech is good only as long as it’s US who dominates the information market.

Freedom of speech is right for an American citizen not a foreign country or entity.

Regardless free speech for Americans is already dead. Remember when they took away rights from groups you didn't care about? Now it's your turn.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#169

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

bink wrote: post #140

duxup wrote: post #113

I'm not opposed. Granted my basis would be that China effectively bans such social media apps from the outside ... I'm ok with doing the same for them.

I should hope we hold ourselves to a higher bar than China. This would effectively set the precedent that the US Congress can choose winners and losers in the market and even force a sale of a foreign company to an American company. That's the type of action taken by Russia and China that is rightfully condemned. I'd prefer if we focused on why the app is dangerous and maybe pass some comprehensive privacy or anti-mo…

> should hope we hold ourselves to a higher bar than China

We do. TikTok.com won't be blocked here the way Facebook and Google are in China.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#170

Post by corimaith » Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

cagenut wrote: post #48

segasaturn wrote: post #5

99% Invisible recently introduced me to the political concept of Noticeably Improving People's Lives (abbreviated as NIPL), which refers to how politicians get votes by making visible, positive improvements to people's lives. Not only is this bill bad policy (does nothing to protect people from foreign surveillance and violates free speech), its shit politics. All it's going to do is make the 150m Americans who use T…

the single most explanatory fact about america's political behavior, generally over the last 20 years and most acutely today, is this graph: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fszq_PSWIAUwaWw?format=jpg&name=... the average age of a congress person (house and senate) has gone up by one year, per year, for roughly 20 years. that tells you that the "normal" organic churn of the past simply stopped dead in its tracks. we have…

Well, you probably voted in a congressman who voted in favour of this... And while there is a vocal segment of a population who might oppose it, there also plenty of comments in this very thread who support it. How do you know this isn't an enactment of the popular will here?