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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#11

Post by jMyles »

It seems to me that the most likely outcome is that some money will opaquely change hands and that TikTok will remain available, either because of a shell game divestiture or because of a policy change. There's just too much money at stake.

But even if that doesn't happen, and the US state starts to regard TikTok as banned, what makes anyone think people will stop using it?

Many western resources are banned in China, and it seems that the primary effect of this is simply the proliferation of tools to subvert the ban.

One thing I don't understand, at a high level: how, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, can anyone believe that the internet will shape itself around the whims of legacy states on anything but very short timescales?

There is no case of successful censorship of this nature, let alone with such a large and popular resource. Conversely, there are many, many cases of failed attempts at censorship, even by the largest and most powerful states and corporations in the world.

Is there some reason to believe that this trend will very suddenly reverse?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#12

Post by yieldcrv »

willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

yes, we’re okay with that - or its not a statement on that, the goal is for TikTok to be sold to Americans

with a ban being the fall back outcome

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

When whacking moles, you cannot whack all moles at once. Pick the one closest/easiest, and keep whacking.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#15

Post by frameset »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

When whacking moles, you cannot whack all moles at once. Pick the one closest/easiest, and keep whacking.

I fear the US government will be whacking just the one mole and then putting down their novelty mallet.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#16

Post by martinky24 »

segasaturn wrote: post #5

99% Invisible recently introduced me to the political concept of Noticeably Improving People's Lives (abbreviated as NIPL), which refers to how politicians get votes by making visible, positive improvements to people's lives. Not only is this bill bad policy (does nothing to protect people from foreign surveillance and violates free speech), its shit politics. All it's going to do is make the 150m Americans who use T…

You claim that this bill "violates free speech". Can you expand on that? That's... quite the claim to just throw out there without any references.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#17

Post by jMyles »

lispisok wrote: post #4

Maybe I'm ignorant but can somebody explain to me how the federal government can just ban TikTok? If I create an app or business can the feds just decide to ban it and it's over?

The state can pass whatever legislation it wants; we've seen convincingly that constitutional restraints are not substantially motivating (although the strongest evidence for this in the current week is not this bill, but the legislation surrounding the ongoing surveillance regime(s)).

But the bigger question is the literal one you've asked: how the federal government can just ban TikTok?

What makes the government think that they can stop packets at some arbitrary line in the sand, when every indication in the history of the internet shows the opposite?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#18

Post by SeanAnderson »

willio58 wrote: post #7

I can almost hear the Meta execs cackling in their bathtubs of cash. Seriously though, this decision just feels unsubstantiated and rushed. There are so many claims of manipulation and our data being used by China via TikTok but I can't help but feel a company like Instagram does the exact same thing but it's not a Chinese company so we are just... okay with that?

Yes, the American government is comfortable with American companies having deeper access to American data than foreign adversaries.

It's not about what's being done, it's about who's doing it.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#19

Post by sickofparadox »

lispisok wrote: post #4

Maybe I'm ignorant but can somebody explain to me how the federal government can just ban TikTok? If I create an app or business can the feds just decide to ban it and it's over?

Congress has extremely sweeping authority to dictate interstate and international commerce. Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; "

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#20

Post by kshacker »

lispisok wrote: post #4

Maybe I'm ignorant but can somebody explain to me how the federal government can just ban TikTok? If I create an app or business can the feds just decide to ban it and it's over?

So are you saying no apps can ever be banned?

Whether right or wrong, whether politically motivated or not, it has gone through the house, senate and president which is not a small thing.

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