Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

shelftalkblog.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–159 of 159 posts

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#151

Post by kazinator »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #148
kazinator wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public libraries really should stay away from e-anything, in my opinion. No library would purchase anything of the sort under my watch. Obviously, since patrons check it out, there is demand for it. Well, so what? There is demand for cocaine and porn; should public libraries offer that? Demand for something doesn't ipso facto oblige a library to provide it.

> Public libraries really should stay away from e-anything, in my opinion. No library would purchase anything of the sort under my watch. Why not? What are your goals of a public library?

Strictly physical items. Books, musical instruments, power tools ... no e-garbage.

Nothing with an expiring license or ongoing fees.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#152

Post by Zambyte »

Nevermark wrote: post #150
Zambyte wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I see why slow projects are a problem when you're being paid for labor. You just set expectations, and keep the customer updated on the honest status of the project (give them code they can run, even if it doesn't yet do everything they want). Can you elaborate on what you mean by "risky"? I can only think of projects that don't yet have a customer. In that case, you just don't build it until there is a…

Ah, by risky I meant software developed without paying customers up front. I am curious if there is a open source type model for getting a higher return for doing riskier work, as economics would suggest is fair and also helpful. That is obviously a typical closed source situation, but people find creative solutions. Not talking about selling services, but somehow compensating for writing the code after the fact, ris…

> somehow compensating for writing the code after the fact, risk adjusted, while keeping the code itself free.

This is what labor contracts are for, no? I fulfill my side of the contract (by providing software) and then you fulfill your side of the contact (by providing money), else if I fulfill my side and you do not fulfill yours, I have a legal case against you.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#153

Post by LeafItAlone »

kazinator wrote: post #151
LeafItAlone wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public libraries really should stay away from e-anything, in my opinion. No library would purchase anything of the sort under my watch. Why not? What are your goals of a public library?

Strictly physical items. Books, musical instruments, power tools ... no e-garbage. Nothing with an expiring license or ongoing fees.

That seems to be your implementation. What are your goals?

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#154

Post by fsckboy »

esrauch wrote: post #90
fsckboy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

once libraries exist, they want to perpetuate their existence (or jobs, at least) so they chase the popular in search of more library "views" which justifies their existence. I'm not anti library, but this is why they do stuff like lend out power tools.

You make it sound nefarious for them to loan power tools somehow, while it seems like it's just an identified community need niche that they can service that no other organization will, the same as offering free tax advice or ESL classes or anything else.

people criticize "rent seeking" all the time, but the avg person is a rent seeker. Everybody wants stable income/job security, including (especially?) librarians. I'm not calling it particularly nefarious, rather I'm pointing out its nefarity is in keeping with ordinary human nature.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#155

Post by int_19h »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #132
StockHuman wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered leaving this society where people value libraries for one without taxes? It might suit you better. As per tools, you benefit from having a community that doesn’t needlessly spend on tool duplication or rental, which ultimately concentrates local wealth. But that’s an economic argument when the real one is that it’s a desirable service for cost, convenience and community spirit.

To be fair, the library lovers took over the government from the no tax party, so you are bound to see some friction. No taxes lost their country, and are frustrated.

In US, at least, libraries operate on the level of municipalities and counties. Of which the "no tax party" still controls plenty.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#156

Post by int_19h »

xur17 wrote: post #145
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFTs are a (highly problematic) attempt to do this without a central authority: there's no reason not to have an authority, so we can use regular old public-key cryptography.

Why are NFTs highly problematic? I'd argue that a central authority is highly problematic as it will end up looking like the existing Google / Apple marketplaces with no ability to resell, etc. Removing the central authority would allow organic resale markets for form, etc rather than "approval" blocking any real technical progress.

"Central authority" in this case would be the equivalent of the property registry that governments maintain. Since governments are also the ones who actually protect your abstract property rights when it comes to that, there's no reason for this registry to exist on a blockchain.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#157

Post by int_19h »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #77

I can get the anger against publishers, who seem to add almost no value to the process. But what’s wrong with the authors charging a licensing fee as described here? They deserve a right to charge what the market will support for their work, like everyone else. Personally I don’t even think this change matters - reducing the number of holds to 10 is very reasonable and I bet most will not even do enough reading to ma…

In the absence of artificial monopoly that is copyright, "what the market will support" is zero, though.

And copyright, despite the name, is not a right - it's a privilege granted by society, with the notion that it is a net benefit for said society. Libraries are a part of that equation, and it's not unreasonable to expect some special dispensations there.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#158

Post by int_19h »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #14
koolba wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing libraries to repurchase their entire collection every year should be illegal. We could have public libraries be entirely outside the copyright system. I doubt it’d have a material effect on production of new books. If as a society we have a problem that our libraries are too popular, then that’s probably a good thing. > I would also settle for a loophole that would allow the library to OCR a physical copy t…

The much, much simpler, cheaper, and broad solution is to reduce copyright length to 10 years. Or even 15 years.

To be honest, I'm not even sure that long makes sense.

The point of copyright is to encourage creation of content. But do we actually have a problem with too little content being created these days? If anything, it's the opposite - there's an overabundance of content, to the point where the actual problem is finding the real gems in this firehose (and this does not correlate with price or popularity at all).

Maybe it's time to just drop the whole thing altogether. It does mean that the only people who will write books then will be the ones who either enjoy it as a hobby, or feel very strongly about saying something. And I'm pretty sure that this will still result in more content being created than there is actual demand for.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#159

Post by EnigmaFlare »

fsckboy wrote: post #82
EnigmaFlare wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that printed books also have license fees included in their price. The printer also has the data there and could just print extra copies and sell them at cost+profit but they're not allowed to because copyright. I don't think a latest bestseller should be in a library in the first place. Maybe a couple of years later when the hype has died down if it's still a good book, they can have it for the few peop…

once libraries exist, they want to perpetuate their existence (or jobs, at least) so they chase the popular in search of more library "views" which justifies their existence. I'm not anti library, but this is why they do stuff like lend out power tools.

Kind of but they're meeting a need even if it's a bit of an inefficient way to do it. I don't think most library visitors are there for books anymore, at least not where I go. It's adults using the web, kids playing videogames, parents entertaining their kids with the toys, local bored people chatting to the librarians, club meetings, moving screenings, etc. One librarian told me they're really now a "community center" rather than a library and that they don't have that old-fashioned rule of being quiet in the library.
Post reply on HN