Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Other People’s Problems

seths.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 154 posts

Re: Other People’s Problems

#21

Post by JadeNB »

detourdog wrote: post #8
JadeNB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the claimed phenomenon here is that it's (almost) always easier for you to come up with a solution to someone else's problem than for them to do so, not just that some problems are easier for one person than another. There are problems with this claim, I think, but the absence of free will is not an explanation, or at best just reduces it to the question of why, granting the claim, the determinism (almost) always…

The outside with the solution doesn't have to live with the result and likely doesn't comprehend the un-stated nuances of the situation. That makes problem solving easy.

> The outside with the solution doesn't have to live with the result and likely doesn't comprehend the un-stated nuances of the situation.

Yes, that's the kind of thing I had in mind by saying that I thought that there were problems with the claim.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#22

Post by WJW »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #17
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #10

My general experience is often people think problems are easy to solve from the outside because they just don't understand the problem. Thus you can often find communities of people with disabilities who understand the problems and the people from the outside who offer insulting and simple solutions to the problems. As soon as someone falls from group B into group A the problems stop becoming simple and easily solubl…

>Thus you can often find communities of people with disabilities I find it odd to immediately distill this down to "group A with disabilities" and "group B without". Both groups have problems, maybe just different ones. I also don't see what is insulting about making a sincere attempt to help, whether it ends up being helpful or not.

The insulting bit comes when people with an insufficient understanding of the problem come in and offer "solutions" that anyone could have dreamed up in 5 minutes, thereby implying that the new person either thinks the group with the problem is stupid for not coming up with such an obvious solution themselves.

It's often the grown-up equivalent of a child learning about a longstanding religious conflict and offering "why don't they just all be friends instead" as a solution.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#23

Post by datadrivenangel »

coldtea wrote: post #11

He forgot one of the most obvious reasons: we, as a third party, don't have the extra stress associated with having the problem (or having to deal with the consequences of any potential solution). So we can think without those anxieties and more impartially.

It is easier to help someone else organize their house than to organize your own.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#25

Post by m3kw9 »

Because when you try to solve people’s problems, you imagine this simplified rule set, but in reality the rules you don’t see is what makes it difficult for the actual bearer.

Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try, but make sure you are not insulting someone’s intelligence by over simplifying the problem. This means you need to really get to understand their issue before chirping.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#26

Post by andrelaszlo »

WJW wrote: post #22
PopAlongKid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Thus you can often find communities of people with disabilities I find it odd to immediately distill this down to "group A with disabilities" and "group B without". Both groups have problems, maybe just different ones. I also don't see what is insulting about making a sincere attempt to help, whether it ends up being helpful or not.

The insulting bit comes when people with an insufficient understanding of the problem come in and offer "solutions" that anyone could have dreamed up in 5 minutes, thereby implying that the new person either thinks the group with the problem is stupid for not coming up with such an obvious solution themselves. It's often the grown-up equivalent of a child learning about a longstanding religious conflict and offering…

Why can't they (we) though? :(

Re: Other People’s Problems

#27

Post by kayodelycaon »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #17
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #10

My general experience is often people think problems are easy to solve from the outside because they just don't understand the problem. Thus you can often find communities of people with disabilities who understand the problems and the people from the outside who offer insulting and simple solutions to the problems. As soon as someone falls from group B into group A the problems stop becoming simple and easily solubl…

>Thus you can often find communities of people with disabilities I find it odd to immediately distill this down to "group A with disabilities" and "group B without". Both groups have problems, maybe just different ones. I also don't see what is insulting about making a sincere attempt to help, whether it ends up being helpful or not.

> I also don't see what is insulting about making a sincere attempt to help, whether it ends up being helpful or not.

It's the equivalent of people wanting to escort you across a road without getting run over. They don't think you're capable of understanding the risks of crossing a road.

Or giving someone in a wheelchair tips on how to walk normally.

Or your completely tech illiterate grandparent telling you how to write code. (Yes, this has happened to me.)

A lot of people I've dealt with have no interest understanding the problem. They just want to do the easy thing that feels good to them. When what they expect doesn't happen, they feel bad and expect me to make them feel better.

Similarly, this pattern always happens around food. It's not uncommon I can't eat any of the food at a social event. I'm used to that and I'm not bothered by it. But everyone else feels bad for me and decides to tell me so. No matter how much I say I'm fine, they keep apologizing because they feel guilty. Of course, I can't tell them to stop making their feelings my problem.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#28

Post by jmbwell »

It’s true that sometimes an outsider can offer a fresh perspective. From where you sit, there might be a solution you can’t see. The nearest exit might be in the row behind you.

Maybe this applies more often when the one giving advice has more experience than the one receiving it, or when the person who is stuck has habituated a narrow perspective or some form of learned helplessness.

But I recoil at something I think I see more often, which is when several people stand around pointing out the obvious and congratulating each other on their fresh ideas and wondering what’s so hard for the guy who has lived the situation and would love to find a way forward if there were the right resources or the right change in policies or the right change in politics. The peanut gallery loses interest pretty quickly when faced with questions about the real constraints and it turns out their answers are not fresh at all.

But now we have someone who’s “marinating in the stuck,” surrounded by people who still agree with each other that they know how it should all be done but have now also been embarrassed.

It’s an ugly, toxic cycle that bottoms out at everyone constantly having their knowledge and competence questioned over things they know and can do, by people who don’t and can’t.

If someone is stuck, ask if you can help, sure. Ask what seems to be the trouble. Ask what has been tried so far. But maybe don’t lead with your advice.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#29

Post by cat_plus_plus »

Local maxima and sunk costs should not in reality be ignored. For example, I could find a better job, but with opportunity costs of paying less attention to my health or my family for a couple of years, and it may be difficult to fully recapture these opportunities later. Or say, I made an effort to get to know my current coworkers well. New job may have better pay and more respect from higher ups, but that's still one thing where I would have to start from scratch with no guarantee of equally good results.

It's one thing to look at each problem in isolation, it's another to live a good life overall, which may entail many tradeoffs between different problems.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#30

Post by vouaobrasil »

coldtea wrote: post #9
vouaobrasil wrote: post #3

Or, perhaps we could entertain a fantastical explanation: what if no one has free will and thus someone else's problems seem easy to us because our deterministic movements solve them easier than the deterministic movements of the person with the problem?

That would just move the question *, not give an answer. * to: "OK, and why would our deterministic movements solve them easier than the deterministic movements of the person with the problem?"

Selection bias: people tend to talk about the problems that are hard, and we tend to see the ones that we can solve. (Okay, this has nothing to do with free will I guess...)
Post reply on HN