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The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

theguardian.com

11–20 of 311 posts

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#11
It's an amazing success story (even if surely not without any bad spots), it makes me happy just knowing that it exists.

But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is. If that nationalism also had something like an independent state as a default outlet, the balance between cohesion and corruption creep might shift just enough across a tipping point. I'm really not sue that it can be replicated (but I'd love to be proven wrong!)

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#13

Co-ops are fascinating to me as an alternate evolutionary branch of capitalism. Like the marsupials to the placentals. Also like the marsupials, in most cases where co-ops compete with regular capitalist businesses they go extinct.

I'm afraid I don't understand. My state is chock full of co-ops that compete with their corporate counterparts.

Hell, there's (at least) 3 separate co-op grocery stores in my city, they each compete with an Aldi, and multiple local grocery chains in their respective neighborhoods.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#14

Co-ops are fascinating to me as an alternate evolutionary branch of capitalism. Like the marsupials to the placentals. Also like the marsupials, in most cases where co-ops compete with regular capitalist businesses they go extinct.

Agreed but you could say the same thing about monopolies though right? Anti-trust legislation exists to prevent that sort of extinction.

It exists to preserve competition, which theoretically is supposed to ameliorate the negative aspects of privately owner enterprise.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#15
post #11

It's an amazing success story (even if surely not without any bad spots), it makes me happy just knowing that it exists. But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is. If that nationalism also had something like an independent state as a default outlet, the balance between cohesion and corruption creep might shift just enoug…

> But I do wonder how much of its workability hinges on Basque nationalism rechanneled into something more useful than nationalism usually is.

Basically none, it does not hinge on that.

If anything basque nationalism hurts the proyect more than it helps. Many of the workers in the basque country came "to disrupt" basque nationalism. So many of the old workforce in Mondragon is not basque born.

there was a civil war in spain, most of the industrial capacity was destroyed in the country but not in the basque country. There was a nationalist movement there, so the far right dictatorship thought they had a great strategy. Move people from poor spain to the basque country, you utilise the little industry that remains and you take over the nationalism with people who feel spanish.

The only bit of Basque "nationalism" that helped mondragon was that many of its competitors were kicked out. In the 70s and 80s a ton of american companies came to Spain, the far right dictator hiding his axis friends allied with america in exchange for some military bases and allowed american expansion in Spain. Basque country having some of the largest industrial network was a prime candidate for their location. Then the 80s and 90s had a ton of terrorism which scared american companies which left industrial giants like Mondragon without competition.

So basque nationalism played little part in its success, its more like the American boom of the 1950s, everyone else had a detroyed industry and they didnt so there was a boom. Basque country had the same thing but instead of building coca cola and taking over south american countries to sell cheap bananas they opened cooperatives. There is little reason other than chance that Sillicon Valley is not like that, early companies like IBM could have set up as coopearatives and their early advanatge would not have been disrupted in the sleightest.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed but you could say the same thing about monopolies though right? Anti-trust legislation exists to prevent that sort of extinction.

It exists to preserve competition, which theoretically is supposed to ameliorate the negative aspects of privately owner enterprise.

> which theoretically is supposed to ameliorate the negative aspects of privately owner enterprise

It’s because non-competitive markets are a market failure [1]. Not amelioration.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#19

Co-ops are fascinating to me as an alternate evolutionary branch of capitalism. Like the marsupials to the placentals. Also like the marsupials, in most cases where co-ops compete with regular capitalist businesses they go extinct.

I'm afraid I don't understand. My state is chock full of co-ops that compete with their corporate counterparts. Hell, there's (at least) 3 separate co-op grocery stores in my city, they each compete with an Aldi, and multiple local grocery chains in their respective neighborhoods.

> My state is chock full of co-ops that compete with their corporate counterparts

Same, and we’re deep red. My power company is a member-owned co-op. It’s cheap as hell (6.8¢/kWh for wind) and doesn’t enjoy burning down the state as a hobby.

Re: The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the largest industrial co-op

#20
For all the fearmongering of the Red Scare, this is what socialism looks like. Socialism is an industrial co-op like this where workers are fairly paid for their labor. Capitalism is Walmart where all profits are captured by a handful of shareholders and executives, being subsidized by the Federal government through food stamps to employees and decimating local economies to the point where they're left with dollar stores.

There's a Tiktoker who is having the Amish build a barn on the land she bought in upstate New York and she keeps calling them "capitalist". The Amish in question are entrepreneurial for sure but that's not capitalism. The Amish keep their surplus labor value. It saddens me to see how fundamentally people misunderstand what capitalism actually is.

All we've done is replace the divine right of kings and landed aristocracy with the capital-owning class of the likes of Jeff Bezos. It's sad to see how many people champion their own serfdom when examples like Mondragon show it doesn't have to be that way.

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