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US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

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Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#31

Post by atoav »

akie wrote: post #27

Whenever the EU forces US companies to do something, we get collective outrage on here. So I was wondering: Can we get some collective outrage for this as well? Otherwise I can just conclude that there's a double standard about this kind of thing here.

Of course there is a double standard. As nuanced as your view of the US might be, everybody has to admit that the US doesn't has an exaxtly great track record of sticking to rules they expect others to uphold, be it about trade, democracy, human rights, etc.

A bad side effect of the enorm economic and military power of the US.

But then again China has a way worse track record when it comes to banning US/EU social media companies on their turf.

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#32

Post by AlchemistCamp »

henry2023 wrote: post #24
henry2023 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition and free markets are only for the countries that can’t really compete with us. We like protectionism and customs duties. If that is not enough then there’s always the “national security” argument.

Sorry if this comes across like cynicism. Although I don’t like this system I truly believe this is what it is. Take for example Chinese EVs, if everything stays the same they will outcompete us and instead of approaching this with better engineering and innovation we’re starting to hear about how those cars may be spying on us. Soon to be banned for our own “safety”.

It's not so much that it's cynical, it's also that it steers the thread towards an unpleasant and already well-tread line of political bickering where both sides are talking past each other.

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#33

Post by quonn »

archerx wrote: post #5

I thought America believed in capitalism and the free market? This seems to be the opposite of that philosophy.

Free trade != free domestic market and capitalism.

Furthermore even free trade (which the US doesn‘t exactly practice) does not mean allowing foreign adversaries (which China arguably is) to undermine the political system which is democratic (which they may not do yet but there is no need to enable them to being able to choose to do it later).

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#34

Post by mindslight »

quonn wrote: post #29
akie wrote: post #27

Whenever the EU forces US companies to do something, we get collective outrage on here. So I was wondering: Can we get some collective outrage for this as well? Otherwise I can just conclude that there's a double standard about this kind of thing here.

As a EU citizen I don‘t care about any collective outrage on HN. It‘s not even a question of standards, it‘s a question of power and I‘m happy to see that the EU has enough power to pass these kind of laws.

As a US citizen I don't care about the "collective outrage" of people likely working for the surveillance industry. I'm thankful for the EU passing meaningful regulation that recognizes the ideas of privacy and digital competition, as it at least informs the industry even if I can't directly benefit. This situation with TikTok has only come about due to the US government's regulatory abdication of the past twenty years, which was apparently considered just peachy until a foreign company got in on the game.

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#36

Post by hoseja »

henry2023 wrote: post #26
darkhorn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does China allow Facebook to work in China?

If you’re going to base the actions of the US on grounds of what a country run by the communist party does. Then, are we really capitalists?

Then clearly just banning a propaganda outlet is the smallest bit of warfare that should be waged against the communist country. If China is communist, TikTok is an arm of the CCP. If China is capitalist, it's perfectly fine to retaliate against them blocking western companies from operating within their borders.

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#37

Post by VelesDude »

archerx wrote: post #5

I thought America believed in capitalism and the free market? This seems to be the opposite of that philosophy.

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

Companies love open standards, at first. They love them to get traction but once they have the majority locked down, use it to force others out. Same with "free" markets.

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#39

Post by jpgvm »

darkhorn wrote: post #21
archerx wrote: post #5

I thought America believed in capitalism and the free market? This seems to be the opposite of that philosophy.

Does China allow Facebook to work in China?

Technically yes. Google also.

The caveat being they expect data and servers etc to be present within China and unlike the EU don't allow data to leave China. The penalties are also much much higher.

There are also rules around applying censorship and other requirements, not dissimilar from operating in Thailand, Vietnam, India and probably other markets but those are the 3 I'm very familiar with.

Google previously was happy enough with this arrangement but eventually pulled out. They had very poor market penetration, Baidu then (and now) enjoys a near monopoly on search similar to Google in the US. I imagine that was the key reason rather than the rules themselves as they operate in other very restrictive markets without complaint.

Facebook would have an awful time trying to compete in China tbh. The market is just way too competitive with way too many absolutely cutthroat market participants, completely unlike the US market which was pretty much stagnant before TikTok showed up.

These companies don't enter China for the same reason why many companies don't. Domestic competition there is just too damn tough. If your market isn't already in race to the bottom stage in China it always descends into it pretty quickly because of the rate people clone and adopt similar ideas. If you don't have an unfair advantage you need to be very innovative to stay ahead.

Re: US moves to force ByteDance to sell TikTok

#40

Post by CommanderData »

The American/western hearts and minds are a playing field and a battleground, which the rogue powers are struggling to control at the moment.

Control the media and people's ability to consume information but give people the illusion it's free and open.

Platforms such as this, and any Western one is tightly controlled.

Tiktok, the outlier and it needs to be brought into the fold asap. Instagram, Facebook, YouTube's censorship of Gaza's conflict are abiding by the memo by silencing voices speaking up.

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