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Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

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Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#141

Post by aaomidi »

ParetoOptimal wrote: post #120
snird wrote: post #57

If anything, Google should be more aggressive with getting any politics out. Politics essentially botched their Gemini AI release. The politics are beyond harming the company.

Thinking politics can be removed from any company is wishful thinking. The "best" they can do is mirror status quo and avoid confrontation. This is sometimes wrongly referred to as "neutrality".

Folks saying politics should get removed are effectively saying they're fine with the status quo. Its intellectually dishonest for people to not recognize this in themselves with that opinion. Everything we do is inherently political as we are operating in this political landscape.

LGBTQ+ being welcomed in tech in the earlier days is partially what's responsible for the LGBTQ+ being somewhat welcomed in society in general today.

Status quo for companies back then would've been to never support anything LGBT related until 2015. That's something that a lot of people right now would say would be absurd.

IBM has been rightfully criticized in its role in the Genocide of Nazi Germany. "Never again" means understanding what circumstances in society led to the decisions being made back then. "Never again" can't be actuated if speaking against authority is discouraged.

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#142

Post by robertlagrant »

spencerflem wrote: post #136
robertlagrant wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being trans is a huge hassle, and not something done as a lark to get into female spaces. I think this might have become a little motte and bailey. There's a whole gamut of people covered by the same rule, and not just people who genuinely have gender disphoria.

There is some nuance there! See my other comment- but I wish is was motte and bailey, that would mean that in general trans rights are respected and I can retreat into the motte of that. But what's happening in Florida and elsewhere is oppression of any transness, including what you call "genuine". This sort of anti-all-trans ideology has a lot of support unfortunately. And a common tactic by this sort is to pick at…

> And a common tactic by this sort is to pick at only the controversial parts that are right wing talking points.

Calling things "talking points" is the only tactic at play. If people have real concerns, then address them. Don't dismiss them as "talking points".

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#143

Post by tmtvl »

waihtis wrote: post #22
jsiepkes wrote: post #5

Sure, if all it takes is raising a rainbow flag on top of the building and some words of the CEO they are all for it. But as soon as Google's bottom line is involved they behave pretty predictable.

Id be very happy if corporations stopped participating in any kind of politics altogether, including human rights discourse.

I dunno, stuff like the IBM Nazi thing or the helmet tracking used on slaves in Qatar is kinda... kinda gives bad vibes, I guess.

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#144

Post by HDThoreaun »

dijit wrote: post #30
jsiepkes wrote: post #5

Sure, if all it takes is raising a rainbow flag on top of the building and some words of the CEO they are all for it. But as soon as Google's bottom line is involved they behave pretty predictable.

I hope I'm not considered a troll for asking this question; I will ask on my main account and hopefully people will check my comment history to understand I am not intending to be belligerent or intentionally dumb. But why is it that rainbow flags (pride, et al) are considered the pro-Palestinian side in the conflict. I might be old but I distinctly remember a humanitarian outcry in the 00's because Palestinians were…

It's about oppressed vs oppressor narratives. LGBTQ people tend to sympathize with the oppressed because most of them have memories of being oppressed themselves. Ive actually asked a few about this and they tend to agree that Hamas and palestinains in general would not form a government they would support, but theyre not willing to overlook how oppressed the palestinians have been for the past 80 years.

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#145

Post by DangitBobby »

robertlagrant wrote: post #133
ParetoOptimal wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The harder point to prove, though I think it's true, that much of the pro-Palestinian rhetoric is as much anti-Israel, i.e anti-Semetic. What? My view is totally different. Most of the pro-Palestinian people intersect with the same anti-fascists under fire from newly pro-Israel people that previously criticized anti-fascists for punching Nazis. When alt-right people defaced Jewish synagogues before this conflict I…

> that previously criticized anti-fascists for punching Nazis For punching people they called Nazis.

Accurate or not, the perception of someone being a Nazi made them punchable. It's not hard to argue people desiring to punch Nazis are probably not anti-Semetic.

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#146

Post by worried4future »

mandmandam wrote: post #122
waihtis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id be very happy if corporations stopped participating in any kind of politics altogether, including human rights discourse.

Just to be clear... In your worldview selling AI to a mass murdering apartheid state is not political, but talking about it is?

[flagged]

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#147

Post by nailer »

racional wrote: post #114
nailer wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arab states declaring war on Israel is widely documented part of history. You post does not include supporting arguments for any alternative explanation. Meanwhile, the arabs that stayed in Israel during that war make up 20% of the population and interestingly enjoy more rights than any arab country.

Arab states declaring war on Israel is a part of history. Right, but certain other things happened in that time period which are hugely important also. Meanwhile, [the Palestinians] in Israel enjoy more rights than in [some] Arab countries. The bigger point is that they have distinctly fewer rights, and are fundamentally less equal as citizens, than a certain other group of people in that country. Your post does not…

> > Meanwhile, the arabs that stayed in Israel during that war make up 20% of the population and interestingly enjoy more rights than any arab country.

> The bigger point is that they have distinctly fewer rights, and are fundamentally less equal as citizens, than a certain other group of people in that country.

No. The 2M Israeli arabs have the same rights as Druze and Jews do. This is a very basic verifiable fact you should be aware of before participating in this discussion.

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#149

Post by spencerflem »

robertlagrant wrote: post #142
spencerflem wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some nuance there! See my other comment- but I wish is was motte and bailey, that would mean that in general trans rights are respected and I can retreat into the motte of that. But what's happening in Florida and elsewhere is oppression of any transness, including what you call "genuine". This sort of anti-all-trans ideology has a lot of support unfortunately. And a common tactic by this sort is to pick at…

> And a common tactic by this sort is to pick at only the controversial parts that are right wing talking points. Calling things "talking points" is the only tactic at play. If people have real concerns, then address them. Don't dismiss them as "talking points".

Ugh

The first point I had was that

> Even though much of the actual conflict here is a reaction to males demanding to use female spaces. Any sexism against actual women in this context is disregarded and discarded.

is not true. Being trans of any sort is under attack from the right, see: recent laws in Florida. Calling other people unnuanced while saying this is silly.

My second point is that arguing specific controversial details is a losing battle. Like any group, the left has differences in opinion. I don't want the battles to be infighting about details while we're losing the war.

I have some complicated opinions on this but I'm not going to say them here because that's not going to help anything.

I say this only to clear up the misconception that the left is unnanced in general. Sticking to easy slogans is what works best in hostile online flame threads and if that's all you're looking at I can see why it could come off that way. But if you talk to someone in a friendly noncombattative way I think they will be more likely to share more subtle takes. That's all.

Re: Google fires more workers after CEO says workplace isn’t for politics

#150

Post by racional »

aaomidi wrote: post #138

Google did nothing about Israeli co-workers at Google sending me messages such as "Do you support Hamas?" They targeted me because I +1ed a memegen post mourning civilians who have died in Gaza. I'll even explicitly say this: They were on the search experience team. Multiple of them were also managers. (Both Engineer Managers and Hiring Managers)

Very helpful to know. It shouldn't matter that the people doing this are Israeli, though.

Either way, let's hear more reports from other Googlers, please.

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