Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#101

Post by volf_ »

caeril wrote: post #96
volf_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok has one of the lowest bars to monetization out of all the major social media networks. There is a large amount of creators on the platform that live off their content and eCommerce enabled through the platform. So it disappearing overnight would severely impact people who have a majority of their livelihood through the app. Facebook. Twitter. YouTube. They all have short form video, but TikTok has a lot of fea…

Awful lot of people on "Hacker" News incredibly worried about the livelihoods of people who look pretty and dance for 15 seconds for a living. Any time one hears someone mention the phrase "content creator", one should, by default, execute s/content creator/manipulative parasite/ in their mind. The entire business is social engineering of our brains, en masse, and you should care as much of the livelihoods of these p…

You clearly don't use TikTok. There is quite a lot more than just dancing for 15 seconds.

> Any time one hears someone mention the phrase "content creator", one should, by default, execute s/content creator/manipulative parasite/ in their mind.

k

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#102

Post by caseyy »

jtriangle wrote: post #99
fragsworth wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're way overdramatizing this. Tiktok has already been banned in several countries (like India) for similar reasons and without any of the catastrophe you're suggesting. People can and will switch platforms, it's not that big of a deal...

You, and those in charge of writing and voting for this legislation, massively under-estimate the popularity of tiktok in the US among normal people, ie, normal people who aren't normally subject to the government banning something they enjoy. It's one thing to ban menthol cigarettes, most people don't smoke. Most people use tiktok, it's probably similarly addicting, and they're going to cut them off cold-turkey. It'…

I also think you are catastrophizing.

There are many things that are massively popular. You mention tobacco products, but sugary drinks, alcohol, pesticides, gambling, endangered species products, over-powered home electronics, and similar have all enjoyed popularity and have been banned or severely regulated and restricted by governments in the world. I've yet to see any of these "not going well", so I think regulating a social media site will be okay. It seems to me like people are often grateful for this moderation after a period of adjustment.

But speaking of adjustment... There is far too much dopamine-bomb content to consume online for the time we have to consume it. So I don't think anyone's online diet would have to change at all, even if TikTok ceased to exist entirely.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#103

Post by alephnerd »

Modified3019 wrote: post #94
FredPret wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know about [0]. All I heard from up here in Canada was when Trump starting saying "China" a lot.

And it wasn’t just the CIA roundup, it was in multiple political/economic/military domains around 2012 that China started making clear their decision to suddenly reverse what had been decades of putting in a ton of effort and money into embracing the west. This caught many by surprise because the behavior seems bizarre from a western point of view. Instead China became increasingly aggressive to it’s neighbors and st…

> but Trump finally forced the public recognition of the issue in his characteristic camera grabbing way

Not really, and I was there when all this happened in the Obama admin and am still friends with people who worked on this.

The reality is after the OPM hack there was bipartisan support at the policymaker level to tamp down on the Chinese government for major transgressions. Chinese officials began getting sanctioned and most of the policies Trump boasted about were written and passed before his time.

Presidents don't really do much regarding these topics - it's always career bureaucrats and policymakers who are actually setting the gears in motion for these kinds of changes.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#104

Post by mistermann »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #89
volf_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok has one of the lowest bars to monetization out of all the major social media networks. There is a large amount of creators on the platform that live off their content and eCommerce enabled through the platform. So it disappearing overnight would severely impact people who have a majority of their livelihood through the app. Facebook. Twitter. YouTube. They all have short form video, but TikTok has a lot of fea…

I’m sorry but the livelihood of a healthy democracy is more important than the livelihood of a bunch of influencers.

Do you know for a fact that TikTok is not more beneficial to democracy than detrimental? Could it be possible that your opinion is based upon the various stories you have read on the matter, and could it be possible that those stories are misleading?

Ironically, TikTok is a good platform for learning about why people think the things they do, though it is also a very powerful tool for exacerbating the problem. Power of most any kind can be used for good or ill, and TikTok is certainly powerful. If I was in the controlling beliefs of the masses business, canceling TikTok is the first thing I would do also...and to make sure it gets done I would bundle it in with funding for Ukraine and Israel.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#105

Post by aurareturn »

caseyy wrote: post #87
aurareturn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sounds like a bunch of excuses for supporting a protectionist set of policies.

Well, I can't make it sound differently for you. But do you have any counter-arguments? Like any claim that ByteDance isn't receiving existentially important benefits by being in CCP's good graces? Or does it just sound a certain way without much grounding in facts?

Do you have solid evidence that ByteDance receives important benefits from CCP? It seems to me that it's the opposite of what you wrote and that the CCP is making it much harder for ByteDance to do business and dominate. If I'm ByteDance, I'd rather have the CCP distance itself from me and not interfere with anything. That'd help more.

To me, all governments protect their own big industries. You don't think Meta has lobbyists behind the bill? You don't think Microsoft does - whom has made it clear that they're interesting in buying TikTok - as well?

Meta's war against Tiktok:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/faceboo...

https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/meta-facebook-tiktok-p...

The Huawei ban hugely benefited Apple, Cisco, and Samsung. But the Huawei ban also fired up China. After 5 years, Huawei is now making a huge comeback but this time, without dependencies on crucial American technology. Look at the reports of Huawei sales and Apple's decline in sales in China in Q1 2024.

China will now compete against America's semiconductor industry - instead of being buyers. The world also sees lesser of the US because of the Huawei ban. Now even some European countries are weary of relying too much on America.

So while the Huawei ban did initially boost American companies, the damage is everlasting and America can't deny that it's now in a protectionist state. You can fool the public through propaganda (such as "China bad") but not governments around the world.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#106

Post by godshatter »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #29
mtnGoat wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is. If you rely heavily on Google search traffic or ads, and get banned you are in the same boat. Id say it’s still correct, because the point OP was trying to make is, don’t run a business that can fail entirely because of another entities whims.

Yes, but that is pretty terrible advice. It might make sense if you have tons of profitable business options and you have to choose one, but that is rarely the situation. There are billion dollar companies that run on AdWords, and the owners are far better off than if they refused to run a business with a single point failure, and worked at a coffee shop. Hundreds of billions of dollars flow through AdWords to busine…

And if all these Google-dependent companies had diversified a bit, put some money in other ad networks as they grew (even if small amounts), then maybe Google wouldn't dominate all ad revenue. But that would require leaving a small amount of money on the table, so nope, I guess.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#107

Post by ok123456 »

caseyy wrote: post #102
jtriangle wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, and those in charge of writing and voting for this legislation, massively under-estimate the popularity of tiktok in the US among normal people, ie, normal people who aren't normally subject to the government banning something they enjoy. It's one thing to ban menthol cigarettes, most people don't smoke. Most people use tiktok, it's probably similarly addicting, and they're going to cut them off cold-turkey. It'…

I also think you are catastrophizing. There are many things that are massively popular. You mention tobacco products, but sugary drinks, alcohol, pesticides, gambling, endangered species products, over-powered home electronics, and similar have all enjoyed popularity and have been banned or severely regulated and restricted by governments in the world. I've yet to see any of these "not going well", so I think regulat…

You can't compare vast swaths of your population getting lung cancer and emphysema or rich people not being able to buy knives with ivy inlays to banning a medium where the common folk can communicate, run businesses, and generally conduct their lives.

The fallout from this WILL be a political and constitutional catastrophe that Washington will never likely recover from.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#108

Post by ok123456 »

aurareturn wrote: post #105
caseyy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can't make it sound differently for you. But do you have any counter-arguments? Like any claim that ByteDance isn't receiving existentially important benefits by being in CCP's good graces? Or does it just sound a certain way without much grounding in facts?

Do you have solid evidence that ByteDance receives important benefits from CCP? It seems to me that it's the opposite of what you wrote and that the CCP is making it much harder for ByteDance to do business and dominate. If I'm ByteDance, I'd rather have the CCP distance itself from me and not interfere with anything. That'd help more. To me, all governments protect their own big industries. You don't think Meta has…

Usually, these accusations are a form of projection. They have Facebook and Google collecting data for US intelligence agencies and assume China is doing the same.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#109

Post by ok123456 »

fragmede wrote: post #79
ok123456 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why have all the TikTok competitors launched by US social media companies been total flops, then?

Have they been flops? Instagram reels and YouTube shorts and Snapchat all seem to be doing fine

All they had to do was destroy their existing platform by shoehorning a short video service whether their users wanted it or not. The recommendation systems in those copy-cat systems are very weak.

Re: A TikTok ban would deal a blow to creators, businesses and the American economy

#110

Post by caseyy »

ok123456 wrote: post #107
caseyy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think you are catastrophizing. There are many things that are massively popular. You mention tobacco products, but sugary drinks, alcohol, pesticides, gambling, endangered species products, over-powered home electronics, and similar have all enjoyed popularity and have been banned or severely regulated and restricted by governments in the world. I've yet to see any of these "not going well", so I think regulat…

You can't compare vast swaths of your population getting lung cancer and emphysema or rich people not being able to buy knives with ivy inlays to banning a medium where the common folk can communicate, run businesses, and generally conduct their lives. The fallout from this WILL be a political and constitutional catastrophe that Washington will never likely recover from.

Lol, of course you can. Social media causes plenty of health issues. Mental health issues specifically. Also, no one is banning communication. You can communicate in many other ways that exploit you less. Common folk communicating, running business, and conducting their lives was all doable before TikTok, what are you on?
Post reply on HN