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Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

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Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#91
post #82
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we allow human trials of new drugs?

Consent

The people surrounding the trial participant didn't give consent, if the drug causes a violent psychosis which in turn causes people to be injured by the participant, how does that differ?

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#92
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this article is about Waymo. We can create a new link about "unicycle rider with a camera driving on the opposite lane", but that's another topic

The topic would not gather nearly as much attention. Why?

No-one is suggesting that that person should be duplicated a hundred million times and drive two tonne objects through every city in the world, you see. "Magic driving robot does stupid thing" is a much more interesting story than "arbitrary human does stupid thing", because the end goal is to have _a lot_ of the magic driving robot.

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#94

When are we going to admit that the current level of understanding and technical capabilities are not sufficient for safe autonomous driving?

I've said it over and over: the American automobile transit system is inherently unsafe. That's why I've been a self driving skeptic. We have a system where there drivers must break the rules and/or drive in an unsafe manner regularly. This involves: excessive speed when others are driving too fast, entering the oncoming lane when needing to pass someone double parked, making blind turns because a big truck is blocking your view, not knowing when a pedestrian will enter a crosswalk and needing to slam on the brakes, having to yield when crossing a lane of traffic... the list goes on and on. There isn't an actual safe set of rules, and the rules we have are so commonly broken that a learning algorithm won't follow them.

I'd put this inherent danger at somewhere around 0.1% of the time. I'd say I'm forced to drive dangerously about once every 10 miles of driving, but the fact that people must drive dangerously occasionally to use the system means that a machine can't ever learn to use it safely.

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#95
post #91
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent

The people surrounding the trial participant didn't give consent, if the drug causes a violent psychosis which in turn causes people to be injured by the participant, how does that differ?

You are quickly moving the goalposts I see. Have fun with that exercise.

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#96
post #7

I would be curious to know what the car thought the situation was, something must have gone really wrong here. It ignored the double lines and crossed them to overtake and then stayed in the wrong lane for a really long time. If the car understood the state of the world around this, this is kind of a huge mistake in behaviour. And if it didn't it is concerning as well as it would mean it can end up in the opposite la…

It’s kinda funny that the Waymo car is so impatient. I’m pretty sure in this situation I would have just waited until the group ride cleared out to ahead of me and then continued. I would not want to crowd or find my way around them. If I wanted to get past such a big group ride I would probably reroute onto another block since they would keep catching me at stop lights.

What's weird is that Waymo seems generally biased to very conservative driving so see it do a random aggressive move is strange.

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#97

Waymo told the Chronicle in a statement that the robotaxi “detected that there may be a risk of a person within that crowd who had fallen down, and decided to carefully initiate a passing maneuver when the opposing lane was clear to move around what could be an obstacle and a safety concern.” “After starting that maneuver, out of an abundance of caution around these vulnerable road users, and to avoid getting too clo…

That statement is PR bullshit, I expected better from Waymo. Nobody fell, so it misidentified the situation. And there was nothing careful about the overtake maneuver here, there was no safe place to end the maneuver in sight. These kinds of mistakes will very likely happen with self-driving cars, the important part is to address them and improve the cars. I don't expect the cars to be flawless from the start (I do e…

I'm not sure if it's entirely bullshit, but certainly the phrase "remained in the oncoming lane for longer than necessary" is doing some heavy lifting, feels like some key information has been omitted.

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#98
post #95
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people surrounding the trial participant didn't give consent, if the drug causes a violent psychosis which in turn causes people to be injured by the participant, how does that differ?

You are quickly moving the goalposts I see. Have fun with that exercise.

I don't think I am, I think they are comparable, they are both regulated tests of new technology in real world situations where there is no practical alternative in order to determine if they are fit for purpose.

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#99
post #98
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are quickly moving the goalposts I see. Have fun with that exercise.

I don't think I am, I think they are comparable, they are both regulated tests of new technology in real world situations where there is no practical alternative in order to determine if they are fit for purpose.

[deleted]

Re: Waymo illegal overtake into wrong-way driving

#100
Google's AI is just as bad as the rest. I remember when it couldn't get past a traffic cone after not being in an accident for "countless hours":

https://youtu.be/zdKCQKBvH-A?t=742

These companies should be fined hefty amounts and barred from beta testing out in public and putting people in danger. Governments should carry out comprehensive tests on a self-driving car's capabilities, same as cars without proven passenger safety (Euro NCAP) aren't allowed to be on roads carrying passengers.

And now this great AI company is also providing AI services to pariah states like Apartheid Israel to be used on people. That's scary.

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