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I love programming but I hate the programming industry

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Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#201

Post by kirso »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #2

It’s not the “programming industry” that OP hates, it’s the “corporate world”. I’ve worked with (and have been) developers who have mismatched expectations on what “the real world” wants out of them. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about finesse, abstractions, witty or beautiful code. They care about finding developers who will pump out features to the business requirements. Some human beings in that cog (man…

Great observation.

I started learning programming years ago and never had an inclination to become a software engineer professionally.

Whilst everyone is doomscrolling about AI taking over, I am learning basics and fundamentals of programming and having so much fun.

Its the only activity that gives me flow state these days and actually allows to build something from nothing.

I wish I could pickup the skills faster, but I also realize that I'd be probably miserable...

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#202

Post by kirso »

game_the0ry wrote: post #23

I have similar feelings with leetcode. I love software engineering, but leetcode makes me hate software engineering. I just want to build cool stuff. I don't want to implement LRU cache and another leetcode medium-hard in under 40 mins from memory.

Whats the last time you used bubble sort in your Linktree clone side-project?

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#203

Post by whstl »

amboo7 wrote: post #194
whstl wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clean code is easier to read What's "clean code"? Capital-C Clean Code? Hell no. This is code that looks clean only on the surface, but in practice it only works on toy projects. Anything big enough is impenetrable for debugging and a performance catastrophe. Lowercase "clean code" from people who heard the above but never even read the book? What's that anyway? Nine out of ten times, this is just developers puttin…

Wrong. Performance and correctness/cleanness go together. Perhaps you have never tried generating correct code that is ways faster than what you can write by hand.

Once again: what even is “cleanliness”? Are you writing it in lowercase on purpose, or are you unaware of methodologies that share the term? Or are you talking about Uncle Bob’s but refusing to capitalize?

“Clean” is a horrible qualifier for code. It is either too subjective/broad, or too loaded.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#204

Post by amboo7 »

whstl wrote: post #203
amboo7 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Performance and correctness/cleanness go together. Perhaps you have never tried generating correct code that is ways faster than what you can write by hand.

Once again: what even is “cleanliness”? Are you writing it in lowercase on purpose, or are you unaware of methodologies that share the term? Or are you talking about Uncle Bob’s but refusing to capitalize? “Clean” is a horrible qualifier for code. It is either too subjective/broad, or too loaded.

OK, I realized it was about something else. I don't follow Uncle Bob, and was referring to some people justifying "unclean"/incorrect shortcuts to gain performance.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#205

Post by berniedurfee »

Jensson wrote: post #189
Dan42 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An order of magnitude is a bit much. I'd say quick and dirty gets you 3 shots, while slow and beautiful gets you 1. And if you succeed, it means the result is dirty/ugly code that must be maintained forever.

Doing it many times tend to be much cleaner than trying to get it right the first time. So fast -> clean, slow -> ugly code, as long as you use the speed to redo and clean things up.

Except the redo and cleanup part never happens.

The PoC becomes a pilot becomes production becomes an exit becomes someone else’s problem. That’s the SLDC that has gotten us to a place with endless amounts of terrible software everywhere you look.

Though, I’m optimistic that at some point, the software industry will be so saturated, all the products have all the features, and the only place left to differentiate or disrupt will be quality.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#206

Post by berniedurfee »

bumby wrote: post #161
geraldwhen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all developers are equal. Government work pays a third or less what private industry pays. You’re never going to get extreme competence from a government software employee.

Never? You don’t think NSA or Israeli 8200 has preeminent software developers? I think your assumption hinges on people being motivated solely by money. That may be largely generalizable, but I suspect there are relatively large exceptions to that rule.

I think they have the benefit of mystique. I don’t think you’d find their code quality any better than the average. I also think you’d find the same rush to market mania that plagues the rest of the software industry.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#207

Post by berniedurfee »

fireflash38 wrote: post #163
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what they wrote, "small startups" are part of that "corporate world." From my experience, the cultural differences between large corporations, and smaller startups, is night and day. Often, neither one is functional; but they are dysfunctional, in different ways. For myself, I was never happy until I was able to helm my own ship. A lot of folks think that this means "hobby programmer," but I don't actually fit t…

I vote we bring back artisan. Someone who takes pride in their work, to a form of artistry, and just like in a lot of good art: not overly complicated

The starving software artist. I like it! :)

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#208

Post by whstl »

amboo7 wrote: post #204
whstl wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again: what even is “cleanliness”? Are you writing it in lowercase on purpose, or are you unaware of methodologies that share the term? Or are you talking about Uncle Bob’s but refusing to capitalize? “Clean” is a horrible qualifier for code. It is either too subjective/broad, or too loaded.

OK, I realized it was about something else. I don't follow Uncle Bob, and was referring to some people justifying "unclean"/incorrect shortcuts to gain performance.

I totally agree with you in that regard, "readable" and "performant" often go hand in hand. My gripe is with the "Clean" adjective, that often indicates code that actually isn't readable and is also low performant.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#209

Post by msephton »

thn-gap wrote: post #197
msephton wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, lockdown project. I made the decision in early 2020, shortly the first C-19 lockdown happened in the United Kingdom. I had extra time every day given that my usual routines, childcare, etc were disrupted. And I had a Playdate developer preview unit. I switched from web and app development to purely games. I'd previously made games but only occasionally, as a hobby. Though I do live and breathe classic vide…

Thanks a lot for sharing. I love your approach for smaller games with faster cadence, and that it worked as full time job. I know the market is tough, but I hope you can make it work as long as you want.

Thanks so much. Keep on truckin'
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