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Our biggest ever river catch?

theoceancleanup.com

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Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#141

Post by cookingmyserver »

pentae wrote: post #82

A commendable operation but sadly, this is a very small fraction of a percentage of the 8-10 million tons of plastic entering the ocean each year. The Ocean Cleanup themselves have estimated at least 75% of ocean trash is from fishing boats, and from living on a remote tropical island myself, at least 90% of the things you find washed up on the beach appear to be from Chinese fishing vessels. (there's usually Chinese…

> The Ocean Cleanup themselves have estimated at least 75% of ocean trash is from fishing boats

They estimate that 75% of the ocean trash in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is from fishing boats.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#142

Post by missedthecue »

klysm wrote: post #88
missedthecue wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic is very good for the environment relatively speaking. - It's a carbon sink, - it's lightweight (reducing transport emissions) - it takes very little energy to produce compared to glass or metals which require furnaces - and has very little carbon emissions during production unlike paper packaging which has a huge carbon footprint. The only problem with plastic is that it doesn't always make it to the proper d…

Calling plastics a carbon sink is dubious because you have to spend energy to get the oil out in the first place. How about calling it an oil sink?

You have to burn much more energy to get sand out of the ground (glass), bauxite out of the mine (aluminum), or trees out of the forest (paper).

It doesn't take much energy to get a ton of petroleum out, compared to a ton of sand, aluminum ore, or lumber.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#143

Post by missedthecue »

dotancohen wrote: post #129
missedthecue wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically yes. Petroleum burned produces CO2. Petroleum plasticized does not. The more market share that plastic packaging eats up, the lower emissions are.

But what happens to that carbon when the plastic decomposes, biodegrades, burns, is digested, or meets any other end? That once-below-ground carbon is now in the atmosphere, whether it takes a year or a decade to break down.

If the plastic is properly desposed of, this doesn't happen. When it gets into rivers and oceans is when this happens.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#144

Post by beeeeerp »

staplers wrote: post #93
beeeeerp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d call that being more neutral than a sink unless I’m misunderstanding you. I consider paper a sink, because trees are actively sequestering atmospheric CO2.

Standing trees will aways be more of a carbon sink than dead flat trees.

The original comment was about plastic. Paper or wood are used as alternatives in many applications.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#145

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #107
louissm_it wrote: post #104

I don't understand why people (Greenpeace) are so against The Ocean Cleanup - complaining that we need to fix the problem at the root instead of cleaning up the mess afterwards. Why can't we do both?

Probably because of the Shopping Cart Tragedy: The thinking that you can leave your shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot because it's someone's job to collect them. So people might throw trash into nature because they think that someone will collect it.

I wish it was as simple to solve as the Shopping Cart Tragedy. If you have an Aldi near you, you know that they never have problems with anyone leaving carts in the lot. A simple case of misaligned incentives that is easily solved with an effective solution. Shame that no other vendor in the States does it.

For those not familiar with Aldi in the States, they have a very rudimentary analog system that locks the carts up, and you put a US quarter in the lock to unlock the cart. You shop, put your groceries away, and when you go to lock the cart back up you get your quarter back. A quarter is basically nothing in today's modern age, but the mental desire to get it back is apparently powerful enough to incentivize people to walk the cart the 10 meters or so back to where it belongs. I haven't been to the Aldi's in Germany but I assume they work the same way.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#146

Post by Workaccount2 »

liotier wrote: post #128
missedthecue wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic is very good for the environment relatively speaking. - It's a carbon sink, - it's lightweight (reducing transport emissions) - it takes very little energy to produce compared to glass or metals which require furnaces - and has very little carbon emissions during production unlike paper packaging which has a huge carbon footprint. The only problem with plastic is that it doesn't always make it to the proper d…

Plastics erode and degrade into microplastics, that get into the food chain... A carbon sink of sorts, but I would do without it.

Rather than focusing on recycling plastic, we should be focusing on properly sequestering it.

Dig tunnels deep in the earth were it can sit for millions of years before breaking back down into whatever simpler hydrocarbons.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#147

Post by Workaccount2 »

stevage wrote: post #84
missedthecue wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically yes. Petroleum burned produces CO2. Petroleum plasticized does not. The more market share that plastic packaging eats up, the lower emissions are.

Well it's certainly an unusual take

It's not a take, it's strictly true.

Plastic pollution is bad, but it's different (and orders of magnitude more manageable) than the pollution that is causing climate change.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#148

Post by JacobThreeThree »

dav43 wrote: post #125
antupis wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because plastic from McDonald's is not that big a problem. Fishing gear https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/07/invisibl... and carbon fibers are much bigger https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230703133034.h... plastic polluters.

Same theory would apply - charge the producers of these products a cost - no matter a plastic bottle, a plastic nappy or a plastic medical device.

And if the producers from other highly polluting countries don't pay, we send in the military?

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#149

Post by dotancohen »

xolox wrote: post #140
dotancohen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> having discard that is biodegradable (and perhaps can directly contribute to a compost pile) is a very worthwhile goal. No, biodegradable is far worse for the environment. Normal plastic sits on the Earth's surface for years, as an eyesore to remind us to clean up our act. Biodegradable plastic releases CO2 directly to the atmosphere quickly, contributing to climate change more quickly (albeit with less eyesore).

This is completely disregarding the impact of microplastics on the health of animals, plants and ecosystems (FWIW I am aware that bioplastics shed microplastics as well).

Actually, it is not.

For one thing, biodegradable plastics release microplastics, just sooner so there is less opportunity to collect them (as is done in TFA). And for another, even if it were not so, the looming climate catastrophe is a far greater danger to all species then is the microplastic concern.

Re: Our biggest ever river catch?

#150

Post by Workaccount2 »

latchkey wrote: post #70
raincom wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, lack of "garbage collection infrastructure" better explains what's going on in SE Asia, India. When there is no such infrastructure, where else people dump?

Saigon is a massive city and has garbage collection infrastructure, yet people still dump trash into the rivers that run through the cities. It is actual culture to just toss trash onto the streets, into the gutters and into the rivers. I used to live alongside Truong Sa river and watched people dump their trash into it all day long. There is even a govt run group that goes up and down the river all day long picking…

I have worked with people who grew up in Central America and just drop garbage on the ground when done with something. Even if the trash is 20 feet away.

It's hard to shake natural habits from your youth, especially if you don't even care that much.

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