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Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

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Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#11

Post by tstegart »

I don't think the Uncanny Valley can exist with regards to user interfaces. They were created from scratch. And they've changed, and are still changing. And neither a desktop interface nor a web interface is set in stone.

See, the valley can exist because humans stay the same, at least to our brains. We don't madly change form or shape every 20 years. But user interfaces do. So how do our brains know a web interface looks too much like a desktop interface? It can only know because we know what both are "supposed" to look like.

But kids being brought up on web interfaces that look like desktops will not have a valley because to them that looks normal. There is no set "desktop" look or web interface "look." Its only what we've created. Create something different, and the valley will go away.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#12

Post by eli_s »

There's a big difference between web app and web page. Common web app controls (accordion, tab panels etc) allow developers to convey lots more information on screen and well thought out use of AJAX can make a complex application perform more quickly than the static equivalent.

As the complexity of web apps increases users will need to get used to the idea that they need to learn how to use each app to get the most out of it which is how it works with desktop apps. Try to compare the UI between desktop apps such as a music editor, 3DSMax and MSWord. Each uses different UI controls (sliders, knobs, text input etc). Each app is complex and has an associated learning curve. If people consider the app useful they will invest the time in learning how to use it.

I recently had to learn how to use Aftereffects. The UI and work flow were completely foreign to me - none of my existing knowledge was transferable, but I learned how to use it because I needed the features it provided.

Ultimately the market will decide. My guess is that the line between desktop and browser will continue to blur and will one day disappear.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#13

Post by 12ren »

Abstracting (too much), it's violated expectations - like broken promises, people really don't like it.

Taking a tangential step, computer automation is similar when it purports to be able to help you, but doesn't understand you well enough to do so; like MS's "clippy".

In contrast, Google's "I'm feeling lucky" button is automation that fulfills its promise (though the name emphases that luck is involved). Google can predict so well what I want, that this button is (very often) right. An awesome achievement. I added a simple command-line google lookup, to go directly to the page, and it's freaking me out how well it works:

    > cat ~/bin/g
    firefox google.com/search?q="$*"\&btnI= &

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#14

Post by kirse »

axod wrote: post #4

I think the worst thing you can do as a webapp is start with emulating the O/S - dragable, resizable, minimizable emulated windows and dialogs. I hate the idea of having "emulated" windows within a single browser window. It looks messy and confused. So on that sort of point I agree. I'm not sure what other examples there are though.

I fully agree. This is why I can't stand using Meebo unless I absolutely have to. The app itself is amazing for what it does, but in no way will it replace my dedicated desktop AIM client.

Most web-apps that emulate a desktop app are still clunky and nowhere near as smooth to operate as their desktop counterpart. Meebo is one example, and all the web "desktop replacements" are another. You're always waiting for something to load, or javascript doesn't resize the window properly, windows that get dragged around don't move smoothly, etc.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#15

Post by tlrobinson »

12ren wrote: post #13

Abstracting (too much), it's violated expectations - like broken promises, people really don't like it. Taking a tangential step, computer automation is similar when it purports to be able to help you, but doesn't understand you well enough to do so; like MS's "clippy". In contrast, Google's "I'm feeling lucky" button is automation that fulfills its promise (though the name emphases that luck is involved). Google can…

Neat idea. Here's one way on OS X:

    open "http://google.com/search?q="$*"\&btnI="
Or if you want to specify a non-default browser:

    open -a "Safari.app" "http://google.com/search?q="$*"\&btnI="

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#16

Post by donw »

tstegart wrote: post #11

I don't think the Uncanny Valley can exist with regards to user interfaces. They were created from scratch. And they've changed, and are still changing. And neither a desktop interface nor a web interface is set in stone. See, the valley can exist because humans stay the same, at least to our brains. We don't madly change form or shape every 20 years. But user interfaces do. So how do our brains know a web interface…

Depending on your client audience, user interfaces might not change enough for them to really feel too comfortable switching -- for example, if even the theme of my father's Windows installation changes, he has a lot of problems getting work done.

If you have a web app that looks identical to a Windows/OS X desktop app, but behaves oddly, it will irritate your customers in subtle but significant ways.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#17

Post by tstegart »

donw wrote: post #16
tstegart wrote: post #11

I don't think the Uncanny Valley can exist with regards to user interfaces. They were created from scratch. And they've changed, and are still changing. And neither a desktop interface nor a web interface is set in stone. See, the valley can exist because humans stay the same, at least to our brains. We don't madly change form or shape every 20 years. But user interfaces do. So how do our brains know a web interface…

Depending on your client audience, user interfaces might not change enough for them to really feel too comfortable switching -- for example, if even the theme of my father's Windows installation changes, he has a lot of problems getting work done. If you have a web app that looks identical to a Windows/OS X desktop app, but behaves oddly, it will irritate your customers in subtle but significant ways.

But isn't that an expectation problem? It doesn't behave as expected. But visually, it could have looked like anything. As long as the second thing looks exactly like the first but behaves differently, it will be irritating. But the first thing can look like anything you want and it'll never be annoying, unless it too looks like something else. Plus, someone who gets introduced to the second interface first will have that interface become their reference point.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#18

Post by jfarmer »

Eh, there's something to be said about web applications and the Uncanny Valley, but this isn't it.

Atwood, I think, is saying that web applications shouldn't be like desktop applications because it violates the user's expectation of how a webapp should be.

Applying the Uncanny Valley to this says that it's not bad for web apps to behave like desktop apps -- it's bad for webapps to signal that they have behave like desktop apps, and then fail to live up to that expectation.

This problem affects other products, too. For example, imagine a really awesome semantic search engine called CantorSet. You can throw all sorts of questions at it and it appears to come up with the answer. "What did Bush say at the last G8 meeting?" Wow! Amazing!

But then you ask questions like, "Why did my wife leave me?" No answer! Wow, this thing sucks.

It's less about what the webapp does or doesn't do, and more about the expectations it sets and whether or not it lives up to them.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#19

Post by gstar »

Cappuccino is squarely in the "Uncanny Valley" according to Atwood, but I disagree with his analysis.

If you look at 280 slides, it doesn't behave quite like a mac, but it's still intuitive. People understand the WIMP.

I think he's conflating crappy Swing java apps with webapp UX.

Re: Avoiding The Uncanny Valley of User Interface

#20

Post by jules »

axod wrote: post #4

I think the worst thing you can do as a webapp is start with emulating the O/S - dragable, resizable, minimizable emulated windows and dialogs. I hate the idea of having "emulated" windows within a single browser window. It looks messy and confused. So on that sort of point I agree. I'm not sure what other examples there are though.

Many web apps are SLOW.
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