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Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

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Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#11

Post by neya »

I think the article leaves out the main difference in Ruby vs Python. Ruby is built for humans, Python is built for machines. This example used to be illustrated on Ruby on Rail's website.

https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine

They are philosophical vastly different languages. This isn't to say one is better or worse over the other. Just use the right tool for the job. If I was going to do anything with machine learning or data analytics or LLM's, Python is hand's down the right tool for the job.

However, If I were to setup a full fledged web application that required a really short time to market with some complex features, I would probably choose Ruby because of Rails.

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#12

Post by kqr »

sho wrote: post #5
Rapzid wrote: post #2

I've done a lot of SRE work and two stints at companies with RoR stacks. Really have kinda soured on Ruby and Python at this point and it has little to do with loops. If I had to choose though it would be Python for asyncio.

The omitted context in this comment is that the RoR stack propelled those 2 companies to the level of usage and viability where they needed, and could afford to hire, SRE engineers. I'm not saying RoR doesn't have its faults, I've left it behind too. But I can't deny its productivity, and even in 2024 I would be hard pressed to name something better for a SAAS company starting out.

This is so often the case. "Ugh, with technology X you get such intense growing pains!"

...well, congratulations!

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#14

Post by sho »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #9
sho wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The omitted context in this comment is that the RoR stack propelled those 2 companies to the level of usage and viability where they needed, and could afford to hire, SRE engineers. I'm not saying RoR doesn't have its faults, I've left it behind too. But I can't deny its productivity, and even in 2024 I would be hard pressed to name something better for a SAAS company starting out.

I’ve tried so many stacks on side projects and always come back to RoR (with a bit of a grudge). I dislike many things about Ruby, but RoR is extremely hard to beat. Basically, everything you need in a stack is provided or readily available in the community.

Yeah. My usual advice to anyone who asks is "Use Rails unless you have a very good reason not to". Those reasons do exist, but they're pretty specific and don't apply 90% of the time.

Of course if we're being really real, the first piece of advice should actually be "Can this be Wordpress?"

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#15

Post by Rapzid »

sho wrote: post #5
Rapzid wrote: post #2

I've done a lot of SRE work and two stints at companies with RoR stacks. Really have kinda soured on Ruby and Python at this point and it has little to do with loops. If I had to choose though it would be Python for asyncio.

The omitted context in this comment is that the RoR stack propelled those 2 companies to the level of usage and viability where they needed, and could afford to hire, SRE engineers. I'm not saying RoR doesn't have its faults, I've left it behind too. But I can't deny its productivity, and even in 2024 I would be hard pressed to name something better for a SAAS company starting out.

Or it was along for the ride. One of those companies was propelled by product market fit, the other by 0% interest and the VC firehose of 2021.

When the successful company was founded back in the noughties RoR was arguably miles ahead of everything else. An argument could certainly be made about time-to-market and iteration speed. For the later there were a lot of other viable options available..

> even in 2024 I would be hard pressed to name something better for a SAAS company starting

My sense, at least looking at the stacks for tons of recent YC companies, is that most startups are all in on JavaScript these days. Might not actually be better(though I prefer it), but that seems to be the trend.

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#17

Post by adw »

neya wrote: post #11

I think the article leaves out the main difference in Ruby vs Python. Ruby is built for humans, Python is built for machines. This example used to be illustrated on Ruby on Rail's website. https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine They are philosophical vastly different languages. This isn't to say one is better or worse over the other. Just use the right tool for the job. If I was going to do anything with machine learning o…

Given Python has a long history as a teaching language, that strikes me as the kind of grandiose statement without evidence which Perl fans used to be fond of. Even more so given there are approximately no “non-programmers” writing Ruby and enormous numbers writing Python in finance, data science, typography, EDA, and a billion other places; civilians seem to manage with Python just fine.

For what it’s worth, language _really_ built for humans probably looks more like Excel or Max/MSP (or both) than like any traditional language - at least those use our embedded spatial reasoning rather than laundering everything through a text serialization.

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#18

Post by dexwiz »

neya wrote: post #11

I think the article leaves out the main difference in Ruby vs Python. Ruby is built for humans, Python is built for machines. This example used to be illustrated on Ruby on Rail's website. https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine They are philosophical vastly different languages. This isn't to say one is better or worse over the other. Just use the right tool for the job. If I was going to do anything with machine learning o…

Funny, because I find Python much more readable than Ruby in most cases. The metaprogramming in Ruby has always struck me of bikeshedding novel programming idioms instead of focusing on simplicity. But that’s just my own opinion.

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#19

Post by graboid »

Ruby always seems so appealing. Can anybody tell me how the Ruby ecosystem looks like w.r.t.

- (Desktop) GUI

- Natural language processing

I would really like to learn Ruby, but I can only justify the effort if I can use its ecosystems for some private projects, and I often have been burned by languages not offering too much in those two areas. And speed-wise, as I understand, Ruby is the same ball-park as Python?

Re: Ruby vs. Python comes down to the for loop (2021)

#20

Post by danmur »

neya wrote: post #11

I think the article leaves out the main difference in Ruby vs Python. Ruby is built for humans, Python is built for machines. This example used to be illustrated on Ruby on Rail's website. https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine They are philosophical vastly different languages. This isn't to say one is better or worse over the other. Just use the right tool for the job. If I was going to do anything with machine learning o…

"Ruby is built for humans, Python is built for machines."

I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous. Perfectly in line with that load of blather from DHH though.

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