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Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

newscenter.lbl.gov

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#51

No doubt we'll see this transplanted into GM crops for reduced fertilizer need.

Eh, that's really hard to do and fertilizer is cheap you just zap some air with electricity and You're chilling. Plus legumes have the better version figured out imo - symbiotic bacteria instead of having to support a whole new organelle.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#52
post #19

Using this to reduce the need for fertilizer would be awesome, but the engineer in me has to ask “What could possibly go wrong”. Interstellar showed one scenario. A nitrogen absorbing crop-blight or species out-evolving out food crops and overtaking them. With far more fuel the odds would be in favor of species that can consume nitrogen, and how do you keep those at bay when it happens?

So that's already happened. It's called an algae bloom. They don't necessarily fix their own nitrogen though, we fix it for them and dump it into oceans (we're quite a bit better at it than nature at this point). Biological fixation of nitrogen like this would be overly complicated to engineer (compared to regular symbiosis like between legumes and root bacteria) and isn't as energy efficient (plants would waste a lot of energy maintaining the organelles). We have gotten quite good at pulling nitrogen from the air and turning it into bioavailable nitrogen and flooding ecosystems with it already. In terms of how we keep them at bay, we don't it's kind of a problem.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrogen is inert. Even if you could run out of N2 (unlikely), it would have no effect.

Except burning your lungs in the not-so-long run, as they are not evolved to deal with a pure oxygen atmosphere.

Lungs are damaged by high PPO2, not high FO2.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#55
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the only plot hole, but yeah, agreed.

It’s not a mere plot hole, it’s the premise of the movie. To me that was a major turnoff

Same for me. It's as if launching a biodome into space is easier than just making a biodome on Earth and just keeping it there.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing the nitrogen bottleneck would let them capture carbon faster. Given our predicament I'd say we should take all the help we get.

Remove too much carbon however and the plants die. We don't want a Great Decarbonification Event.

Decaying plants emit carbon. The extra nitrogen would just be changing is the length of the give-your-carbon-back-to-the-atmosphere queue. It's negative feedback: stable.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrogen is inert. Even if you could run out of N2 (unlikely), it would have no effect.

That's wrong, the fact that is inert doesn't mean it's useless If you remove all nitrogen from atmosphere, there WILL be consequences

The sibling comment about lift is one of the few things I can think of. Birds would have a tough time. The freezing point of water would also be lowered significantly.

Eliminating a gas while keeping all other partial pressures constant only affects physical processes. Biochemistry on the other hand only relies on partial pressures, and the number of organisms which interact with atmospheric nitrogen are literally so few that you could count them on one hand.

This is all pretty far afield though. There's no way biological processes are even going to have a dent in the ocean of N2 surrounding us.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#58
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrogen is inert. Even if you could run out of N2 (unlikely), it would have no effect.

Except burning your lungs in the not-so-long run, as they are not evolved to deal with a pure oxygen atmosphere.

Lungs do absolutely fine in 3 psi pure oxygen.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#59
post #39
post #19

Using this to reduce the need for fertilizer would be awesome, but the engineer in me has to ask “What could possibly go wrong”. Interstellar showed one scenario. A nitrogen absorbing crop-blight or species out-evolving out food crops and overtaking them. With far more fuel the odds would be in favor of species that can consume nitrogen, and how do you keep those at bay when it happens?

It is curious that, apparently, almost all agricultural technology is focused on to break the ecosystem between the crops. That tech discards the nitrogen that would be produced by microorganisms and animals like worms, included seasonally shed leaves plants with deep roots, while promote "solutions" towards the soil desertification and the dependence on multinational corporations that destroy such sings of life arou…

My brother has lost a whole crop to snails and had to replant, I was redirected to you by the insurance to get a refund.

Re: Scientists discover first nitrogen fixing organelle

#60
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is curious that, apparently, almost all agricultural technology is focused on to break the ecosystem between the crops. That tech discards the nitrogen that would be produced by microorganisms and animals like worms, included seasonally shed leaves plants with deep roots, while promote "solutions" towards the soil desertification and the dependence on multinational corporations that destroy such sings of life arou…

My brother has lost a whole crop to snails and had to replant, I was redirected to you by the insurance to get a refund.

At the same time the harvester deposits the seed, it also deposits the micro-bots that will circulate in the plant at time it grow, whom will attack any non-flying pests. At the same time, you put other plants grow around, designed to compensate nutrients in a balanced ecosystem and at same time designed as habitat for the necessary pollinators and necessary natural predators. You only collect the crop lines, the rest you preserved with automated systems. This is why I commented should include micro-robotics.

so crazy is it? It's just an Akira Miyawaki style applied to crops plus tech.

What I was expecting is a comment in line about the harvest is a nutrient extraction process, similar to a mineral mine. Therefore, even with a balanced ecosystem, there may come a time when the compost from the harvest, or animal excrement that consumed the crop, is needed to replenish what was taken by the crop for to close the loop. In such a case, it should be applied in liquid form by injecting it underground at the same time the seed is planted, but not in the same quantities that are required today, thanks to the balanced ecosystem, which rewards also with high-quality crops.

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