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Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

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Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#31

Post by K0balt »

pydry wrote: post #24
techdmn wrote: post #20

About 20 years ago I was a programmer at a manufacturing company. I worked on a project to automate part of materials requirements planning. The woman who was in charge of it was spending about 20 hours per week wrangling Excel spreadsheets to figure out what materials they needed. It was all based on data we had: inventory, orders, etc. A few weeks later, and with a fair amount of her help, I'd automated the whole t…

There's plenty of stuff in the middle it's just been moved overseas and the output is sent back to the US on a shipping container. Chinese and Mexican factory workers != robots. It sounds obvious but the establishment, media, and economists do like to blur the distinction.

This sounds a lot like one of the last projects I worked On, where some significant operations were to be assigned to “AI” which was meant to mean Artificial intelligence for marketing slicks but everyone knew it would be “Actually, Indians” for the foreseeable future.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#32

Post by tacocataco »

onion2k wrote: post #26
methuselah_in wrote: post #9

I don't know for aging economics this is somewhat good. But for developing countries it's horrible. Where humans has to search work each day to find food for night

Is humanity really at a point where we can't think of anything more useful than "carry things about" and "put things in a box" for those people to do? If that's really the state we're in then a bunch of robots doing it instead is the least of our problems.

I think getting adequate housing, food, and Healthcare is useful for workers.

Perhaps if people didn't need to prove that they deserve these necessities this conversation about robots replacing humans wouldn't be so dire.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#33

Post by 082349872349872 »

onion2k wrote: post #28
kypro wrote: post #15

I assume this is being upvoted because HN thinks this is good? At least that's what I hear in AI threads... AI just allows humans to work more efficiently right? The few fulfilment center workers left are probably now 100x fulfilment workers now that they can manage a fleet of robotic workers instead of human ones. As HN says, these types of innovations historically only create new job opportunities so there's probab…

Amazon's role in society is not to provide menial jobs to keep people busy though. If anything, the automation provides good, innovative jobs in robotics. Those are the sorts of jobs I think everyone should have. Leave fetching and carrying to robots, and educate people to be useful in more meaningful, fulfilling, and impactful ways. Suggesting that robots are bad because they take jobs from people doing horrible, bo…

If the robots are the ones altering the position of matter at or near the earth’s surface relatively to other such matter, there are still roles for telling them to do so, and history suggests the latter work is capable of indefinite extension: there are not only those who give orders but those who give advice as to what orders should be given.

(plagiarism intentional)

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#34

Post by VHRanger »

aczerepinski wrote: post #25

I wish I could believe that all this automation would lead to more leisure time for all of humanity, but it certainly won’t happen on its own out of generosity from the robot owners.

We've been saying that for a long time. [Keynes predicted we'd be working 15 hour weeks by now](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ecca.12439)

The thing is, people don't actually want to tradeoff their labor time for leisure time all that well. They value consumption too much.

There are plenty of 15 hour jobs out there. You can get one right now!

But you'd need to have a smaller appartment, an older car, and eat more lentils.

While people say they want to work less, their [revealed preference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference) is that they value buying stuff above having more leisure.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#35

Post by nabla9 »

aczerepinski wrote: post #25

I wish I could believe that all this automation would lead to more leisure time for all of humanity, but it certainly won’t happen on its own out of generosity from the robot owners.

If things go as before, wage share continues to decline while unemployment does not increase.

Wage share has steadily declined in OECD countries since early 1970s. In the US since 1960s. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PRS84006173 Wages make smaller and smaller portion of national income while capital share increases.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#36

Post by exe34 »

techdmn wrote: post #20

About 20 years ago I was a programmer at a manufacturing company. I worked on a project to automate part of materials requirements planning. The woman who was in charge of it was spending about 20 hours per week wrangling Excel spreadsheets to figure out what materials they needed. It was all based on data we had: inventory, orders, etc. A few weeks later, and with a fair amount of her help, I'd automated the whole t…

I enjoy automating the boring parts of my job - plus if I don't, somebody else will. At least now I can just go on to automate the next thing.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#37

Post by capybara_2020 »

techdmn wrote: post #20

About 20 years ago I was a programmer at a manufacturing company. I worked on a project to automate part of materials requirements planning. The woman who was in charge of it was spending about 20 hours per week wrangling Excel spreadsheets to figure out what materials they needed. It was all based on data we had: inventory, orders, etc. A few weeks later, and with a fair amount of her help, I'd automated the whole t…

Assuming the world is moving towards more automation and high skilled(not sure this is the right term. But places where you need to be more adaptable and think more) jobs. Also assuming for a moment todays adults are the transitionary generation.

How do we prepare the next generation for what is to come? It feels like schools are still stuck in the industrial age. How do we teach them not math and science but the actual act of learning/adapting. Our parents could not predict what the world would look like today, neither can we. How do we educate the next generation on the foundational skills rather than specific skills which they can learn on their own depending on what the situation calls for?

This is an idea I am thinking about, so I would love to hear other opinions and thoughts.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#38

Post by tacocataco »

082349872349872 wrote: post #23
methuselah_in wrote: post #9

I don't know for aging economics this is somewhat good. But for developing countries it's horrible. Where humans has to search work each day to find food for night

If we also sufficiently automated food production, there ought to be enough calories to feed everyone, right? Right?

Food waste is tragic. Now no one eats that $5 iceberg lettuce head, and people are forced to eat unhealthy low nutritional carbs for sustenance.

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#39

Post by seper8 »

VHRanger wrote: post #34
aczerepinski wrote: post #25

I wish I could believe that all this automation would lead to more leisure time for all of humanity, but it certainly won’t happen on its own out of generosity from the robot owners.

We've been saying that for a long time. [Keynes predicted we'd be working 15 hour weeks by now]( https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ecca.12439 ) The thing is, people don't actually want to tradeoff their labor time for leisure time all that well. They value consumption too much. There are plenty of 15 hour jobs out there. You can get one right now! But you'd need to have a smaller appartment, an older c…

How detached from reality are you that you think people can make ends meet while working 15 hours a week?

Re: Amazon grows to over 750k robots, replacing 100k humans

#40

Post by nabla9 »

VHRanger wrote: post #34
aczerepinski wrote: post #25

I wish I could believe that all this automation would lead to more leisure time for all of humanity, but it certainly won’t happen on its own out of generosity from the robot owners.

We've been saying that for a long time. [Keynes predicted we'd be working 15 hour weeks by now]( https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ecca.12439 ) The thing is, people don't actually want to tradeoff their labor time for leisure time all that well. They value consumption too much. There are plenty of 15 hour jobs out there. You can get one right now! But you'd need to have a smaller appartment, an older c…

All what you say is true, if the wage share stays constant.

The "working poor" phenomenon where you can't pay for necessities like rent, healthcare etc. while working full time is the result of declining wage share.

Wage share has steadily declined in OECD countries since early 1970s. In the US since 1960s. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PRS84006173 Wages make smaller and smaller portion of national income while capital share increases.

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