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Household size and the housing stock

kevinerdmann.substack.com

141–149 of 149 posts

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose an example of landlords playing games in Ireland. The only generalizable fact across the western world is low interest rates from 2007-2022 and the landlord class continuing to jack up rents every time they got more access to cheap money. That's the problem.

I think you misunderstand elementary economics here. The rental market is not a monopoly or oligopoly. Landlords can not exercise market power. It is a competitive market given the number of independent landlords and given their inability to coordinate in order to effect collusion. > the landlord class continuing to jack up rents every time they got more access to cheap money That's not true. As a case study, in Aust…

Thank you econ 101 student, but I understand it fine.

> It is a competitive market given the number of independent landlords and given their inability to coordinate in order to effect collusion.

Oops, they did collude. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fix...

> rents actually decreased.

This link says rent inflation decreased, which just means inflation was lower. This is also just a graph and some numbers, so I'm not really sure why you linked it. It doesn't explain anything by itself.

> which is that it leads to more housing starts which addresses the shortage issue

We had 15 years of the cheapest money in the history of modern economics, why do we still have a shortage?

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand elementary economics here. The rental market is not a monopoly or oligopoly. Landlords can not exercise market power. It is a competitive market given the number of independent landlords and given their inability to coordinate in order to effect collusion. > the landlord class continuing to jack up rents every time they got more access to cheap money That's not true. As a case study, in Aust…

Thank you econ 101 student, but I understand it fine. > It is a competitive market given the number of independent landlords and given their inability to coordinate in order to effect collusion. Oops, they did collude. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fix... > rents actually decreased. This link says rent inflation decreased, which just means inflation was lower. This is also just a graph and…

Negative rent inflation in 2020 means rents decreased in 2020.

I explained already why it's relevant. Rents went down when credit was the cheapest (refuting your hypothesis) and when net migration was the lowest (confirming my hypothesis that it's shortage related).

Then rents skyrocketed post-2022 when credit was expensive (refuting your hypothesis, again) and when net migration was at an all time high relative to housing starts (confirming my hypothesis, again).

You have no data that backs your hypothesis and you remain obstinate in the face of data that refutes it.

  "We had 15 years of the cheapest money in the history of modern economics, why do we still have a shortage?"
Zoning regulations that prevent housing near cities. We also didn't have as bad of a shortage 4 years ago, the rental crisis got a lot worse post-2022 everywhere in the West as the net migration backlog from covid was processed and housing starts failed to keep up.

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#143
post #91
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the market works the way it should, then people should shift out of the tighter areas and into the looser areas, reaching something closer to an equilibrium. The problem is that households require two wage earners. Consequently, it is very difficult for a family to move since both earners have to find better jobs simultaneously. One of the reasons to stay in the overpriced areas is that when one person loses a j…

"Consequently, it is very difficult for a family to move since both earners have to find better jobs simultaneously." If cost of living is significantly lower, they don't have to be better. My whole comment was about job distribution. What are we doing to address it? Do the mega corp leaders not see the social and business value in opening offices in smaller cities?

The maximum cost of living differential is something like +25% (NYC) to -25% (Beaumont, TX).

Most differentials are much smaller. "Cheap" places are no longer very much cheaper.

Cost of living changes are no longer extreme enough to offset the loss of a wage earner.

> Do the mega corp leaders not see the social and business value in opening offices in smaller cities?

Um, no?

The difference between opening an office in San Jose and one in Pittsburgh is quite large, for example. Your connectivity due to air travel is much worse. Your personal networking is much worse. etc.

It was the former CTO of Modcloth who talked about how having the programmers in Pittsburgh was great but that they needed to park the executives in the Bay Area.

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit 3: Originally I'd replied about population demographics and migration; @giantg2 has a good reply to that, which you can see below. In reviewing the conversation, I got mentally stuck on the comparisions to reservations, because I think it's a severely fucked up comparison. But saying that alone isn't a helpful or effective conversation, so - > Shouldn't we be trying to bring similar opportunities to all social g…

The main comparison points for the rural areas and the Native Americans are: - Both groups had pressures, albeit to very different degrees and methods, to remove rights and land. We see that rural populations are losing farm land due to the way the market treats commodity crops and the way the government subsidizes - get big or get out. Many people in rural communities feel ignored and even mistreated by their govern…

Those make sense, and they’re useful to bring up, but I do think that generally considering one informative to the other is A Problem - reservations are from forced relocation and generations of systematic cultural destruction. Even if you’d argue rural areas are facing cultural destruction, it’s (a) not a specific, deliberate aim and (b) has been occurring for a fraction of the time (1-2 generations, vs what, 6 to 20?).

So like, I’d buy that it’s worth taking about both, due to their similarities, but I wouldn’t buy that any conclusions could be made on those alone.

PS - I also want to say, I really appreciate your response; you’ve spoken with a measured an informative tone/etc, and that’s worth celebrating.

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#145
post #143
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Consequently, it is very difficult for a family to move since both earners have to find better jobs simultaneously." If cost of living is significantly lower, they don't have to be better. My whole comment was about job distribution. What are we doing to address it? Do the mega corp leaders not see the social and business value in opening offices in smaller cities?

The maximum cost of living differential is something like +25% (NYC) to -25% (Beaumont, TX). Most differentials are much smaller. "Cheap" places are no longer very much cheaper. Cost of living changes are no longer extreme enough to offset the loss of a wage earner. > Do the mega corp leaders not see the social and business value in opening offices in smaller cities? Um, no? The difference between opening an office i…

Google actually has an office in Pittsburgh. That's the more or less the type of expansion I'm talking about - satellite offices for the large corps.

It's still an international airport, even if the schedule isn't as robust. The emphasis on in-person personal networking, and personal networking in general, is atrocious. Personal networking and the requirement to so it in person is a huge factor in many biases and discrimination. It's only going to get worse as the group-think and physical concentration increases while the job market gets worse.

Also, 25% is a big difference. I think we have to compare the commutable areas as well. Some places like NYC and SF do not have much cheaper areas in a reasonable commute. Other areas can have much cheaper areas in a reasonable commute. Many costs are largely the same due to the national brands - cars, electronics, appliances, etc. But things like housing can be massively different. An apartment in a commutable suburb can be close to 50% of what it is downtown in many cities. It's no secret that the salaries and property costs are extremely above average in the bay area.

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#146
post #25
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You build the biggest thing you can within a parcel because there is plenty of demand at the top of the market. Want more, smaller homes? Reduce or eliminate minimum lot sizes, setbacks, constraints on number of units, and process required towards entitlement. What is legal is what gets built. Not enough is legal, and not enough is built as a result.

So why enough housing is not getting build in Europe, surely they don't have crazy american rules but still facing severe housing shortages all over.

Do you have the people to build them?

That's a problem in this part of the world. People would rather sit at a comfy desk writing software than expose themselves to a harsh construction environment. The small few willing to do it are booked up years in advance. They can't possibly build any more than they already are.

You might say higher pay would attract more people, but guess what higher pay brings?

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#147
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as you announce a new subway station the vultures descend and prices will ratchet up as speculators by land and sit in it, waiting for the hither bidder.

That means the demand is very high and we need to build even more subway stations until the “vultures” can’t arbitrage the market anymore.

If I think through this;

1. Price varies based on desirability of a location.

2. Desirability varies based on many factors, including proximity to a city center or major business concerns, cost of living, crime rate, etc.

3. To optimize desirability until there is more desirable space than those who desire it would require optimizing the variables that contribute to desirability.

4. The potential result is desirable, ie proximity to jobs or cultural center, low crime, low cost of living, etc. A number of variables contribute to each of these, and those would require optimization as well.

4a. There will be a point of diminishing returns, where builders will exit a market when there are not enough buyers at high enough prices to make a profit. As soon as there is a hint of profit, the vultures will appear.

5. In order to prevent real estate speculation, we could impose a few laws: first, make lending at a profit illegal for all non productive enterprises; second, levy a land value tax that hurts enough that it makes owning non productive commercial property untenable to own; third, allow only individuals to own residential real estate, ie, eliminate the rental market entirely and levy use taxes for vacant homes (your real estate must be your home of record and must be your residence for some minimum percentage of time every year).

This would destroy the real estate market entirely, and I don't think that would be a bad thing.

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#148
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wide side yards are moats to keep you away from your neighbors. This is widely seen as a feature, not a bug.

"Not meeting your neighbors" works even better in a high rise, and that is tightly packed. :)

Not really, when you can hear every breath they take through the walls.

Re: Household size and the housing stock

#149
This discussions on house size and housing shortage in a country so big is indicative of a bad labour market and declining quality of life.

The economy is in shambles if homes can’t be built for different income groups. The villain here is the govt that eats up the taxes and imposes more and doesn’t provide basic quality of life. Wealth redistribution is not the solution. Wealth management is the answer. America fails miserably.

Basically..if a country as large as America is wanting dense housing and smaller homes, it means it’s becoming poorer.

For the rest of world..who are resource constrained or resource poor or economically weak…America is laughing stock.

It’s like the world’s richest person has a poverty fetish to fit in.

The only true wealth in this world is land. And the govt has made if so none can truly own it. And there you have it.

The gaslighting is real. Land owning farmers are the richest people in the world. By offering them subsidies, they have become debtors. Land rich and cash poor. The ultimate goal is land grab by institutional investors until very few elite will own all the land…and its resources.

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