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CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

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Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tech companies do you allege have/had "minority" quotas to fill?

Thoughtworks wrote in an email to me that they were only considering non-male candidates because of their quotas. The idea, I suppose, is that I should be willing to change my gender if I'm really interested in joining.

Is that legal?

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a quote from somewhere? (Or maybe just an errant > symbol?) Just wondering if it's your own experience or I missed something

Sorry errant >. It was based on my own experience. Launch School has a unique model where it's $200/month for the core curriculum which you complete at your own pace, and then can complete an optional capstone curriculum/project which comes with an ISA (18K or 18% of first year salary). Their outcomes are great, the curriculum is top-notch, and the founder always conducted himself with integrity and transparency. I h…

Thanks for sharing an ISA success story. Lots of us who used to teach at Lambda back in the day only did it because we wanted the ISA to succeed widely as a tuition payment mechanism.

That dream hasn't been realized, and certainly wasn't by Lambda, but I still hold out hope.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#273

I don't understand why an Income Sharing Agreement would be classified as loans. They seem more like equity than debt; the amount that students would pay depends on their future income, and can be arbitrarily small or large (right? or maybe I am misunderstanding the terms of these agreements). I had thought that debt is when you have to pay back at least the "principal" no matter what, and equity is when the financie…

(There was a cap on the ISA, so it wasn't arbitrarily large, but your points still stand.)

I was thinking the same thing. "Can you have a loan without principal?"

But reading through the documentation on this case, it seems like the legal answer is that you can.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#274
/Years/ ago, I tweeted something about how companies like Uber and Lambda were privatizing public services. ISAs specifically seem like a privatization of taxes.

Austen Allred quote-tweeted me to his gazillion followers and caused a big pile-on about how awful and wrong and anti-progress I was.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#275

Are there any legit income-sharing schools of this type, tech or otherwise? Done fairly, it sounds like an interesting alternative to upfront tuition. On the surface it doesn't seem like a bad model, but of course it could be twisted to evil ends. From the article: > The loans carry substantial risk, as a single missed payment triggers a default and the remainder of the $30,000 “cap” becomes due immediately. > Studen…

This isn’t the same type of school, but Purdue was an early experimenter with ISAs. Sounds like as of 2022 they’d paused new enrollments. [0]

As I recall, some critiques were that it was only deemed viable for a small range of STEM majors, and narrows the mission of the institution toward building earning power vs. providing a well-rounded education, being an intellectual/research hub for the community, etc.

[0] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/06/23/purdue-pauses...

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#276
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thoughtworks wrote in an email to me that they were only considering non-male candidates because of their quotas. The idea, I suppose, is that I should be willing to change my gender if I'm really interested in joining.

Is that legal?

At least in the US, if this person received such an email they would be able to sue the company that sent it quite easily.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#277
post #130

The Recurse Center[1] is the opposite of this. They don't take any of your income, they just help you find jobs and companies pay them to find cool people. And there is no curriculum. They believe that if people work on cool things they will learn a lot. I can't recommend it enough! [1]: https://www.recurse.com/

+1 to this. I attended RC in winter of '18. It wasn't the best fit for my personal learning style, but it's an incredible program for the right person.

I highly, highly recommend it to anyone considering going there. Some of the kindest and smartest people you'll meet.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#278
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, plus there is an extremely strong negative select for coding bootcamps. Your local community college could have the best program ever, but they won't beat Ivy League grads, purely because of the inputs.

Absolutely. Higher quality inputs actually reduces the forcing function for the education to be high quality - since you'll get good outcomes anyway.

>reduces the forcing function for the education to be high quality

Not just the education, but the selection process too.

If the higher-quality inputs are abundant, then the overly-exclusive selection process is somewhat deleveraging of overall potential.

If the higher-quality inputs are scarce, they are outnumbered by others having average-to-below-average potential, who often seek the exclusive membership more so than any actual high-quality performance.

Once again a large percentage of the highest-quality inputs can be systematically excluded in a disadvantageous way.

With good fortune at least a good number of high-quality inputs do gain entrance and it can set a good example, sometimes realistic, sometimes not.

Either way the higher-quality inputs are best identified beforehand, not the result of an overly exclusive selection process.

But it's this type selection process that contributes so much to some institutions' perceptions of quality, when they could be doing so much more.

From the least-prestigious programs all the way up to the most-prestigious, it seems like there is always going to be some temptation to blur the distinction among peers and tiers in a way that's confusing to students, and it's just a matter of integrity whether that is taken a bit too far.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This order seems like a death sentence. Corporations aren’t people. Ordering a scammer to knock it off isn’t even close to being a serious penalty. Allred should be in prison.

> Allred should be in prison. The CFPB, like every federal regulatory agency, has only direct civil enforcement powers. They refer criminal matters to the Department of Justice, which usually takes significantly longer before handing down charges, and does not usually disclose the existence of an open investigation until and unless it issues an indictment.

I think that was more of a wishful "should" instead of a prescriptive one.
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