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Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

futureofhumanityinstitute.org

171–180 of 319 posts

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole discussion is pointless - categorizing people by skin colour is ridiculous for almost all purposes, and also, considering history, racist. Also, didn't "black" and "n-word" switch meanings as slur/non-slur less than a century ago (and might switch them again in less than a century) ?

>categorizing people by skin colour is ridiculous for almost all purposes Sure. But race is most often about genetic (or ethno-linguistic) heritage, not skin color. A person from Japan might have the same skin color as someone from Greece.

Sub-saharan Africans have greater genetic diversity than other continental populations. Race is just not an accurate categorization.

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has your 8 yr old really known this for years? He may behave in a conformist way, instinctively, without being able to describe it or understand the phenomenon... both of which are, in my opinion, required to know it. And who's figuring out whose communication? He basically has to draw a picture in crayon of what he means, just so all the rest of you don't misconstrue his meaning. Your "human communication" is much t…

I assume by "draw a picture in crayon", you mean provide a very simple explanation. You seem to be confusing the fact that children generally draw simple things, and also draw with crayons commonly. But there is nothing about crayons intrinsically that means a crayon drawings must be simple.

Having drawn with crayons, pencils, and pens, I think there is an intrinsic property about crayon drawings that does severely limit their maximum complexity/detail.

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#173
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got a strong feeling that Lewis' arguments and exposition were guided by something other than logic, though they pretended to be following it. The trilemma is an example of this. One way to discover that we necessarily have worldviews outside of logic is to look at a statement like this, and realize it appeals to something outside of logic (feelings) to critique how someone else is only pretending to follow it.

I am not saying that I or anyone am perfectly logical or uninfluenced by feeling. Hume was exactly correct when he said the reason is the slave of the passions. But - with his trilemma, Lewis claims "here is a logical argument for believing in the Christian god", and then presents a weak and illogical argument. It's difficult to know what to make of this except that Lewis was somehow blinded to the logical flaws.

What do you think are the logical flaws in the trilemma argument?

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#174
post #2

Possibly because the future of humanity itself is in question? "We're not going to make it, are we? Humans, I mean." --John Connor

Or because Nick Bostrom is a hack. Together with Max Tegmark . Not to mention Ray Kurzweil. Initially wrote wrong surname.

Would you also say Sean Carroll is a hack for his strong support of the MWI?

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#175
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do people not like Max Tegmark? he was kind of a rockstar at NeurIPS

Well, he published a nonfiction book, the best part of which is the first chapter which consists of literally a fiction story . He also has some serious problems with blinders, but they're the same blinders HN has so if I explain any further this post will get flagged, flogged, deleted, and downvoted. Ah well.

Tell me what they are. I won't do any of those things.

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does one research and generate insights for what does not exist yet? It's Zeno's paradox of research: we cannot think about what does not already exist, therefore nothing new can ever be brought into existence!

I call this "nothing can ever happen for the first time". One often hears it in passive-aggressive arguments against renewable energy.

Never heard that in that context. Can you cite an example?

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#178
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that the philosophy faculty would take CS Lewis' opinion seriously into consideration. He was a decent storyteller, but not much of a philosopher.

His work is often quietly cited by a handful of moral philosophers. In particular, The Discarded Image, anytime someone is writing about medieval philosophy. Anyway, being a philosopher simply isn't what the guy did and academics are fairly dismissive without consideration anytime religion (and specifically Christian apologetics) gets in the mix.

> academics are fairly dismissive without consideration anytime religion (and specifically Christian apologetics) gets in the mix.

In fairness, it's a good heuristic. Most Christian apologetics are just less poetic subsets of the Book of Job, but their authors act like they have some new and exciting insight that will prove Christianity 100% for sure this time. It's a total waste of time to engage.

C.S. Lewis's works are the exception, not the rule, since there's actually something there to engage with. Plus, he's just a good author.

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that you are looking at an example where a guy literally paused to consider how he was not so smart about communication. He also shared it with others who can also lack this skill

He said "I think it is laudable if you accustom people to the offensiveness of the truth, but be prepared that you may suffer some personal damage". Doesn't sound like someone doing introspection, it sounds more like he is lamenting that the world isn't as "logical" as he is.

Well, not logical. Truthful. "How much of communication is impaired by filtering through various politeness laws and offences?" Is how I read it.

Re: Future of Humanity Institute shuts down

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a smear taken out of context. What Bostrom actually had to say is both accurate and mild: > “I have always liked the uncompromisingly objective way of thinking and speaking: the more counterintuitive and repugnant a formulation, the more it appeals to me given that it is logically correct,” the quoted excerpt begins. “Take for example the following sentence: Blacks are more stupid than whites. I like that sen…

Most people are not ready to have an honest discussion about the correlation between race and IQ. It sadly gets muddied by various political ministrations. But it seems like a genuine effect that should be studied more. If we truly want equality of opportunity, we must understand what is causing certain races to be on the left side of the normal distribution. Is it nutrition? Social status? Lack of parenting? A combi…

But these honest conversations are occurring.

For example, scientists have honestly looked up the "biology" or "DNA" hypothesis. But this hypothesis is not very strong:

- why a "color-of-the-skin" would be linked to IQ when a "color-of-the-eye" would not?

(and also: why some people are so interested in IQ and color-of-the-skin but are not interested as soon as the genetic factor is something less "visible to the eye"?)

- how could there be IQ disparity based on skin color when the human DNA is so strongly mixed that between two white men and one black man, one of the white can easily be genetically closer to the black than the other white? There is no "DNA of Black Men" group: the DNA of black men is as diverse as the one of the white men and mixes totally with the one of the white men.

- why black men placed on different social situations are scored so differently on IQ when they have very similar DNA (same family or even twins separated at birth)

- why white men placed on different social situations are scored so differently on IQ? If you use white men as a way to predict IQ based on sociological factors, you get a formula that also predict black IQ, so science would say that color-of-the-skin is not the relevant factor here.

There are works about IQ and skin colors for ages now, and the discourse seems to always go backwards with people saying "sure, but let's forget that we know it does not make more sense and try again". This is those people who stop the honest, curious and intellectual discussion.

And I'm pretty sure the first reaction to this would be "it's all lies", because instead of an honest, curious and intellectual discussion, a lot of people who want to have this discussion are in fact more interested of pushing for one particular answer. For different reasons, but I think one of these reasons is the same as why the EA movement was popular despite being so flawed: those people want to think of themselves as very deep and very smart, they want to see "counter intuitive and repugnant" things and stroke their ego by explaining how smart they are for not finding it counter intuitive or repugnant. The problem is that they sometimes just take things that are counter intuitive and incorrect, and they force them into "look at me, I'm smart, it's counter intuitive and yet I dare to consider it".

It's basically what the Bostrom says: he says himself that he is attracted by the idea black people have lower IQ because it is the rebel thing to do. But being the rebel thing to do does not mean that it is scientifically correct or scientifically smart (it can sometimes be, and sometimes not be, you have the same odds throwing a coin). Saying "women are biologically less apt to choose their leaders and therefore it makes sense they don't have the right to vote" or "the position of stars in the sky is affecting our lives based on in which months people were born" are both as "counter intuitive" and "repugnant" as the Black IQ discussion.

Also, it's a bit strange, because in the case of the Black IQ question, the hypothesis of "I see black men failing more often, so I guess they are not as smart", is not counter intuitive at all. It is people who have considered this hypothesis and realised it's simplistic and the truth is more complicated who went further than the basic intuition.

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