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The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

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101–106 of 106 posts

Re: The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

#101

Frances's concerns definitely aren't wrong on the whole, but I feel like he's not seeing the forest for the trees. This ultimately isn't just a question of whether this or that DSM revision is helpful. The patterns of the mental health establishment of the 21st century are oddly reminiscent of where physics and chemistry stood ca. the mid-19th century. Legitimate advances are being made, but most of the tools are sti…

> It's not a great situation, and I don't see many signs that it's improving. I think this is a little too pessimistic on the one hand, and very accurate on the other. On the accurate side: this discipline took one of the most significant hits from the replication crisis, and was one of the most resistant to acknowledging and changing practices. Everyone should keep pushing for open science and preregistered studies…

> There's also hope that neuroscience can start to supplant at least parts of psychology in a few decades.

That definitely does happen, but so far it happens glacially, I assume because doing groundbreaking neuropsychiatric research is considerably harder and more expensive work than "evergreening" existing drugs or reading stuff like Meditations and Walden Two [1] while sipping expensive wine and then pulling an allegedly-modern psychosocial theory out of one's nether regions. My current favorite reference point is anti-NMDA-receptor encephalitis, a (class of?) autoimmune condition that was only definitively identified ca. 2007. One must assume that there are centuries of breathless accounts of "demonic possession" or "latent schizophrenia" or people who were "on drugs" (colloquially often referring to effects of heavy doses of ketamine, PCP, and other potent deliriant/dissociative agents, which tend to be NMDA antagonists) that are probably explained by this condition. And who can say what percentage of today's "schizophrenics" have arrived at a similar place along an as-yet-unidentified path?

[1] Not to say those works aren't worth reading; they're iconic for legitimate reasons. I'm just saying that context and proportionality matter in ways that are often conveniently ignored.

Re: The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you like to say about factor analysis? Lay it on me

It’s poorly understood by many who use the DSM, and without understanding how arbitrary and or subjective it can be it may be difficult to avoid “overfitting” in the clinical setting.

I'm not sure I'm particularly convinced that this is an issue with the method of factor analysis and by extension psychometrics, per-se. Unless one specifies a causal model and actually tries to do a risky test of their theory, any other method is liable to the issue of arbitrariness and subjectivity. Psychometrics itself has come a long way and there have been many advancements to put it on firmer footing. If anything, the issue isn't with the method, but by the user of the method. I don't know if I agree that it's an issue of understanding a method, rather than an over-reliance on data (analysis) over theoretical guidance and trying to take a hammer to theories.

Re: The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not a great situation, and I don't see many signs that it's improving. I think this is a little too pessimistic on the one hand, and very accurate on the other. On the accurate side: this discipline took one of the most significant hits from the replication crisis, and was one of the most resistant to acknowledging and changing practices. Everyone should keep pushing for open science and preregistered studies…

> There's also hope that neuroscience can start to supplant at least parts of psychology in a few decades. That definitely does happen, but so far it happens glacially, I assume because doing groundbreaking neuropsychiatric research is considerably harder and more expensive work than "evergreening" existing drugs or reading stuff like Meditations and Walden Two [1] while sipping expensive wine and then pulling an all…

Indeed, we need better tools and models to explain mental phenomena. It's getting better with models like predictive coding, but it's mostly still folk psychology at this point, just splitting progressively finer hairs.

Re: The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will be interpreted as. "Come to the US, commit crimes until you get caught, then leave instead of jail time". This is not a deterrant.

Does deterrance actually work? Show me someone in the US who doesn't know about jails. Also a secure border was assumed but not stated. This presumes social groups want to be exclusive and are choosey of membership.

> Does deterrance actually work? Show me someone in the US who doesn't know about jails.

I don't know how to address this disconnection in logic. Do you assume that knowledge of a deterrent should create zero crimes ?

You are right though, maybe deterrence doesn't work and summary execution will be the only long term solution to prevent any possible reoffending. I for one welcome Judge Dredd-like overlords.

Re: The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s poorly understood by many who use the DSM, and without understanding how arbitrary and or subjective it can be it may be difficult to avoid “overfitting” in the clinical setting.

I'm not sure I'm particularly convinced that this is an issue with the method of factor analysis and by extension psychometrics, per-se. Unless one specifies a causal model and actually tries to do a risky test of their theory, any other method is liable to the issue of arbitrariness and subjectivity. Psychometrics itself has come a long way and there have been many advancements to put it on firmer footing. If anythi…

It’s not a problem with FA, it’s a problem with people using the DSM who don’t understand how the math behind it influences what they are doing. Ditto for IQ. If you use IQ measures professionally, you should grok FA.

Re: The Battle to Define Mental Illness (2010)

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'm particularly convinced that this is an issue with the method of factor analysis and by extension psychometrics, per-se. Unless one specifies a causal model and actually tries to do a risky test of their theory, any other method is liable to the issue of arbitrariness and subjectivity. Psychometrics itself has come a long way and there have been many advancements to put it on firmer footing. If anythi…

It’s not a problem with FA, it’s a problem with people using the DSM who don’t understand how the math behind it influences what they are doing. Ditto for IQ. If you use IQ measures professionally, you should grok FA.

But what would you have them do instead of FA? I think we're partially agreeing here, but my thinking is that no analytical technique on its-own will be a panacea whether the users really understand it or not. Why would increasing their understanding of the technique affect what they do, when there's not really any other truly different methodological alternative?
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